Next gen has been incredibly flat so far....

[Luseth 1,971]

Something I have thought for a while, I appreciate the pandemic came in at the wrong time but there has been so little true next gen content so far. On the PS5 I can name 1 or 2 next gen games I have played, Xbox has had nothing really truly next gen and it's all feeling a little flat. Have we plateaued for the time being as far as gaming content goes?

 

Almost everything that has been released the couple of years could have been done on the previous consoles with the exception of true ray tracing and the rift warping in ratchet and clank.

 

That's not to say there are not good or great games coming out but there has been little to no innovation. Even looking at Forspoken, as glorious as it looks I am struggling to see it as anything more than a half step forwards at the moment (I hope it proves me wrong). So how do you guy's feel about this latest generation, do you feel you are getting your money's worth out of your latest gadgets or are you in the same boat as me?

 

 

[Tar-Eruntalion 514]

on the one hand we had a pandemic and inflation with another economic crisis looming on the horizon, add the whole scalping/chip shortage thing and things have slowed to a crawl

 

as for content most triple A games have become too samey nowadays, all are cookie cutter and all target the lowest common denominator, i am not saying that good games don't come out anymore but gameplay in general has hit a ceiling since the ps3 era, the only thing that changes is graphics

[J4MES OX4D 10,052]

I've probably used my Playstation 5 three times in the last 6 months and two of those occasions was to do a system update and play a beta for a couple of hours. The most action it's seen is when I played Bloodborne on it back in August of last year. Anyone that's paid a scalper or dedicated days of their lives trying to buy one of these really needs their heads tested because there really isn't many reasons to own one at this time especially with many new games just being old gen titles anyway. I think it will take until 2025 before we really begin to see proper next gen titles but by then, I'll probably be too fed up to care about it. The PS4 did also get off to a slow start and the Xbox One was a pile of shite to start with but it amazes me how every generation transition, we seem to take steps back rather than build upon. 

 

Even these so-called next gen games don't really do anything new and that's because they are being held back by a lack of creativity and vision. Companies like Ubisoft will never make a masterpiece because they will forever play it safe and publishers like that only care about the bottom line and not pushing the industry forward. Sony have also made a complete shitshow of themselves with their lack of foresight in the PS+ service and whilst Microsoft start throwing money around to capture any game possible for their pass, they really aren't doing much to grow in-house studios. 

 

Google have probably set back streaming and caused incredible alienation because of their inability to captilatise on the hardware and service they created also. With Unreal 5 being widely accessible and impressing, hopefully some innovating devs will do something with that but for the next two years at least, it's more old gen titles and the same old shite. Fingers crossed for Forspoken and Harry Potter but even these could turn into generic flops. 

[phil bottle 9,808]

Console gaming has gone backwards in some respects with the spate of broken games being released and focus on redoing old games.  There's plenty of innovation in the PC world. It's just very expensive and there are less independent games companies these days. Take a look at Star Citizen, plenty of innovation but it's had to raise half a billion to do so. 

[crispymorgan 1,057]

The playstation 5 has been an utter waste of money for me.  I've played *nothing* but ps4 upscaled games.  

[GazzaGarratt 11,065]

12 hours ago, crispymorgan said:

The playstation 5 has been an utter waste of money for me.  I've played *nothing* but ps4 upscaled games.  

 

I'd agree - however, I'm not sure its Sony's fault. Its next generation games and developers that seem to be not be able to unlock something truly amazing. However tldr is 2 things - 1) As we get near top end graphics, the jumps get smaller like @Tar-Eruntalion  said, and 2) gamers expectations change so ppl dont wanna wait 7 years for development of a game anymore.

 

Can't have the entire cake and eat it type of scenario me thinks.

[Luseth 1,971]

I do think it is partly Sony's fault (& Microsofts), when you look at the Switch and consider the exclusives available there, games have continued to come out during and since the pandemic and it is rare that you can't play a first party title without updates. The Sony exclusives are becoming much of the same and now they are remastering games that are less than 10 years old (I think it's bonkers that people bought the last of us remake for full price if I am being honest).

 

Sony's obviously focusing heavily on their VR now with apparently 2 million headsets going to be ready for launch but that feel's like it alienates me as someone who has not been comfortable using VR at all, couple that with games that are quite samey and there is becoming less reason to hold onto a playstation other than because my friends have one. But those friends could game anywhere and as cross play comes in more and more (it does seem to be getting there) there is less reason to stick with either of the 2 main consoles anymore going forwards I think.

[J4MES OX4D 10,052]

43 minutes ago, GazzaGarratt said:

I'd agree - however, I'm not sure its Sony's fault.

Sony have done nothing really to evolve apart from rely on existing in-house developers who are capable of producing 1-2 top tier exclusives in a generation. They've also missed out on several acquisition opportunities to rival Xbox and their PS+ subscription service framework is an utter convoluted embarrassment. Microsoft are making some big moves and are trying to innovate with new ideas but aside from PSVR, Sony are just playing it safe and the only significant move they've made is put prices up. The console shortage and how they've allowed so many units to get into the wrong hands has also shaken in the industry from a consumer and even developer perspective where real gamers miss out and publishers don't have the guarantees of sales so they remain glued to the old gen. 

 

The gulf between Sony and Microsoft in the last gen was huge but the gap has closed significantly and now Microsoft have really turned the tide with innovative ideas than benefit both consumer and developers. With Activision's likely departure from Playstation on top of the potential impact Bethesda's departure could have when felt, Sony could be left in a very dangerously threadbare state. One or two big moves more from Microsoft that pass the competition scrutiny and it could be curtains for the Playstation brand just like Sega's overnight demise.   

[Luseth 1,971]

2 minutes ago, J4MES OX4D said:

it could be curtains for the Playstation brand just like Sega's overnight demise.   

 

Agree with almost everything you say but I don't think that will be the case as the brand is so big at the moment, they would get another generation to put things right and may be the kick up the arse they need ^_^

[GazzaGarratt 11,065]

7 minutes ago, Luseth said:

Switch and consider the exclusives available there, games have continued to come out during and since the pandemic and it is rare that you can't play a first party title without updates

 

Looking back what I wrote, I'm sure that Sony have some faults because of their connections to their own developer companies. However, I don't use Switch games as a comparison, because Nintendo have their own unique exclusives and far less of them over the years. Their model of quality over quantity is far superior to other consoles, its just we all love to have more games 😉

 

17 minutes ago, Luseth said:

Sony's obviously focusing heavily on their VR now with apparently 2 million headsets going to be ready for launch but that feel's like it alienates me as someone who has not been comfortable using VR at all,

 

The market within 10 years is going to be more about VR and AR, thats been inevitable for a while. Unfortunately, i'm with you and I don't entirely enjoy VR games, but it is something the next generation are growing up with. You only have to ask @tronic44 about Augmented Reality becoming the next big thing. Its quite a way off but its getting there. Looking forward to trying to the Magic Leap out in November to see how much it has advanced.

 

6 minutes ago, J4MES OX4D said:

The gulf between Sony and Microsoft in the last gen was huge but the gap has closed significantly and now Microsoft have really turned the tide with innovative ideas than benefit both consumer and developers. With Activision's likely departure from Playstation on top of the potential impact Bethesda's departure could have when felt, Sony could be left in a very dangerously threadbare state. One or two big moves more from Microsoft that pass the competition scrutiny and it could be curtains for the Playstation brand just like Sega's overnight demise.   

 

Everything is cyclical. Microsoft were way ahead when the OG Xbox came out, and eventually some years later Sony took control with the PS4 and their exclusives. It takes some years because games take time to develop in their strategies. I think now we're just seeing the natural closeness because technology doesn't grow as quick as it used too. I mean, our eyes can only see as good as they can....mine probably doesn't see much difference after HD now! 😅

[Greboth 2,721]

1 hour ago, Luseth said:

But those friends could game anywhere and as cross play comes in more and more (it does seem to be getting there) there is less reason to stick with either of the 2 main consoles anymore going forwards I think.

 

I'd put a lot of the blame at the feet of cross play & cross gen.  Old generations, it always seemed the first 6-12 months were a slow uptake but this would swell until the vast majority of people upgraded.  With more and more games supporting cross play and cross gen, there's less reason to upgrade when you can play the same games with the same friends just with slightly worse graphics.

 

1 hour ago, GazzaGarratt said:

I think now we're just seeing the natural closeness because technology doesn't grow as quick as it used too. I mean, our eyes can only see as good as they can....mine probably doesn't see much difference after HD now!

 

I disagree on this, Moore's law might not strictly apply these days we're still roughly following it which means continued advancements in computational power.  The problem is how that power is being used; I will be getting the new CoD but, outside of the graphics, is there anything actually in the game that couldn't have been done 2, or more, generations ago?

 

Generally speaking all we've seen of more power, both CPU and GPU, is better graphics and bigger open world maps.  There's been little advancements in leveraging the processing power to make better games; things like object permanence or our actions having impacts on the game world outside of a few predefined story paths.

[J4MES OX4D 10,052]

1 hour ago, GazzaGarratt said:

Everything is cyclical. Microsoft were way ahead when the OG Xbox came out, and eventually some years later Sony took control with the PS4 and their exclusives. It takes some years because games take time to develop in their strategies. I think now we're just seeing the natural closeness because technology doesn't grow as quick as it used too. I mean, our eyes can only see as good as they can....mine probably doesn't see much difference after HD now! 😅

The original Xbox only sold about 25m units whereas the PS2 sold over 150m - even with a slightly better online infrastructure, Sony were streets ahead of Microsoft and that was off the back of the success of PS1 and an established catalogue with no comparable competition. Although the 360 and PS3 gens were only separated by a few million in favour of Playstation, the PS4 sold twice as many units than the Xbox One with a gulf of over 60m difference. Sony have basically dominated Xbox from day one but now Microsoft are making some strong statements with multi-platform publisher acquisitions and consumer-focused innovations and Sony doesn't seem to have anything you can put your finger on. 

 

Microsoft's recent dominance has already forced Sony to move into PC gaming - something they never wanted to do, and one or two more key acquisitions along with this persistent stock shortage will continue to drive people towards Xbox. If Microsoft landed a deal with Unreal that passed competition laws, Sony would be in a whole world of trouble. They really should have made a move for Square Enix and Konami when they had the chance. I'm not all that impressed with Xbox either so far but the groundwork is being laid for the next 3 years. 

 

I've had every Playstation and Xbox going but this is the first time ever that I've felt concerned about Sony. You can feel the panic with them coming to PC so desperately and apart from a few banked exclusives, they don't ooze much confidence and their store along with online infrastructure is horrendous. 

[Luseth 1,971]

1 hour ago, GazzaGarratt said:

 

The market within 10 years is going to be more about VR and AR, thats been inevitable for a while. Unfortunately, i'm with you and I don't entirely enjoy VR games, but it is something the next generation are growing up with. You only have to ask @tronic44 about Augmented Reality becoming the next big thing. Its quite a way off but its getting there. Looking forward to trying to the Magic Leap out in November to see how much it has advanced.

 

AR yes I can see that being huge in the future, VR not so much, if it was then considering the number of options out there every household would have one by now (it's been 5 years since the PSVR but there are many many more affordable options out there). I think there will be a market for VR but currently Sony appear to be throwing all their eggs in that basket and that will make them more susceptible to change if VR does not take off quite the way everyone is hoping.  What I am trying to direct the conversation towards which is what I think @Greboth has cottoned onto is the content that is being produced. There have been steps forward with hardware, but even with VR, pick out a game that is particularly unique or new, the games are largely recreated versions of games we had with the playstation move or the cameras and such in the past.

 

I will just point to battlefield in how a map can evolve and change, a tank goes through a building and it can wipe it out or leave it a heap of bricks on the floor, why can't that be applied to every game, that house you drive through stay's that way throughout the game (heck maybe you even see it bulldozed away one day and builders there putting up something new). Why can't the additional processing power be used so that if someone dies in a house in GTA where you just accidently shot someone the police come out and "investigate" it. I think more can be done to show how what you can do could affect the game world and such. All we get these day's are can I shoot the enemy as many times as possible and rack up the most kills / goals / points etc.

 

Why is it now some of the biggest games (Elden ring etc) are just can you beat the toughest bosses we create? I mean overwatch 2, as much as we will enjoy it will be almost a replica of the first game with new game modes (modes that are likely taken from other games) and new characters / maps. Sony are guilty at the moment of just creating these triple A games that are essentially long interactive films, they don't bring anything new to the table, they are a tried and tested formula that they have spotted makes them lots of money.

 

Like why can't a city in say mafia or gta improve as the game goes on or why don't we see more seasons or weather utilised in games to actually affect the world (I think they tried this with BF2042 but did not implement it at all well).

 

I think Forspoken might be trying to implement some of this from what I have seen but I won't hold my breath until we see it. Just going back to nintendo, and I don't think it's right to separate them because of their uniqueness in games because that's kind of what I want to see more of. I think of breath of the wild and it was something someone pointed out to me at the time, if I stood on the edge of a bridge as if I was about to jump off there was an npc that would come over and discourage you from doing it. That interaction with the game world you don't really find in anything else.

 

I appreciate there is plenty of innovation in the hardware side of things, but the content itself has somewhat stuttered. I feel this is industry wide as well because even with PC, how far can they really push the games without limiting half of their audience.

 

Not shooting down your comments Lee just trying to encourage discussion and that so feel free to pick apart anything I have said 😄

 

 

[GazzaGarratt 11,065]

5 minutes ago, Luseth said:

Not shooting down your comments Lee just trying to encourage discussion and that so feel free to pick apart anything I have said 😄

 

 

No one is, its actually a great discussion and if we all agreed it wouldn't be a discussion! 😉

 

Sometimes Iwill word things as factual as they are, although it will feel like i'm saying its not the producers fault, which it defo it is some departments. If you come back to your part you want to focus on which is game production quality, then you have to realise the gaming customers culture and behaviour has changed dramatically. Most here want games to knock ourselves out but that takes time. Gamers today seem to not have 'time' to wait for development, which is crazy but it flows into other things - looking at you TikTok.

 

Thats why Indie games are surging recently because they can be knocked out far quicker than AAA games as we once knew them. Mobile games too are surging because of the ease to pick up and play.

 

You also have to consider game mechanics and gamer behaviour around the playloop. We want variety and thats hard to build brand new content in every game to give the user a different new experience everytime - usually you see it games that take years to develop, which is why we are still playing those games as they can evolve those by patching in new content every so often. Games that are successful today, get that Playloop working really well hidden under the graphics and functions of a game.

 

You won't see brand new genres as much now because its all been done. So its down to variations that we get pulled to. Just like Music as we're now in the 2nd cycle of music being rehashed from original music into something new. Very rare you come across very original new music content, as there are only so many chords and ways to create it.

 

This all being said, if it was about next gen in terms of what I have 'liked', it is the new Haptic controller idea which works well on certain games. The loading feels like a crappy benefit to receive but its funny if we tried to go back and play games like Gran Turismo and Destiny on an old PS4, the loading times would be insanely slow and probably make us drop off the game quicker.

[crispymorgan 1,057]

Cross play has certainly stifled growth.  And any title that is multi platform will have to cater for the lowest common denominator. But it isn't the best graphics that make the best game.  GTA5 is still going and I think it's largely to do with the modding community.  Some of the servers that alex plays on are unrecognisable from the original game, and there are so many about.  Games like that should focus on making tools and handing them over to the millions of modders who will produce much better content than a studio ever could. 

 

I'm totally over the endless cycle of cod games, I'm not sure I could stomach another.   We need innovation, not repeats.

[Riff Machine 2,105]

I've been so disappointed with the PS5.  There's hasn't been anything that has wow'd me and as @crispymorgan said, It's been mostly upscaled PS4 ports or remake/reboots.  I'm sure some of the games coming down the pipe like Ragnarok and Forspoken will show off the fancy guts of this new gen system, but even then, it's not mind blowing.

 

I honestly feel the last time I was truly amazed at a new console generation was the first time I played the Dreamcast.  We were coming off of the PS1 N64 era, and the graphics and visuals just looked so clean, crisp and upgraded.  I mentioned that in a podcast a few weeks back to, that compared to the first PS2 game I played roughly around the same time, I felt it looked like shit compared to the DC.  

[J4MES OX4D 10,052]

4 hours ago, Greboth said:

The problem is how that power is being used; I will be getting the new CoD but, outside of the graphics, is there anything actually in the game that couldn't have been done 2, or more, generations ago?

If I wanted to, I could dust off the old PS4 from 2013 and run the new Modern Warfare to its fullest potential when it comes out this month on that. I ran the beta on a PC at ultra that is 4 years old too. These are all old gen games that are forward-ported and in terms of core design, there's nothing new or groundbreaking either. Even some of the PS5 'next gen' exclusives could actually run quite comfortably on older architecture - they were just built for the purpose of gaining early adoption rather than the consoles being merely seen as a straight continuation.

 

The only credible current gen thing I have played is actually the Matrix Awakens tech demo - that was the true definition of next gen but the chances of any developers utlising the Unreal engine to that tune and also having greater gameplay ambitions is either years off or wishful thinking especially when you have dross like Ubisoft still churning out games that were stale a decade ago. That is the only time on my PS5 where I've been truly amazed and still now, there is absolutely sod all on the horizon that couldn't run on a PS4 or a 7 year old PC. 

[MrBiron 1,455]

I think the issue is the continuing console shortage issue means it's just not worth making a game solely for the new consoles. Publishers simply aren't willing to the lose the amount of sales from making games cross gen. 

Unfortunately I think it'll be another year before we start getting true next gen games. 

[GazzaGarratt 11,065]

16 hours ago, MrBiron said:

Unfortunately I think it'll be another year before we start getting true next gen games. 

 

Oh I agree with this - more so because games in development for next gen have only been in development for 3-4 years so they need a few more to get them polished.

 

I'll enjoy the few current games we play though as a group for now, providing they can keep bring content like they do.

[Riff Machine 2,105]

As long as it's not a WW2 FPS fighting against zombies and the undead, then YAY!!

 

I agree @MrBiron I do think most developers are still doing the multi-generational game development to get as much out of a game as they can.   Greedy bastards.