GT Sport - FG Races

[Greboth 2,721]

Nothing really to add, it was some great races last night.  The race at Brands was always going to be eventful due to how easy it is to mess up and go off.  Monza was .... interesting.  I don’t think any of us was on the same strategy which mixed things up.  I lost too much time at the start of the race but made it back with strategy.  Just a shame Phil had penalties as we had a decent battle which without the penalties would have been for the win.

 

3 hours ago, Mikepjbell said:

Side note, I think we should have a championship /table over say 6 months? 

 

There’s some quirks to GT’s handling which take me a lap or 2 to adjust to coming from other racing titles.

 

I’m happy to make it a championship but I’ll leave it up to the others as it means making all the races to really have a chance and I don’t know if people want to commit to that.

[Mikepjbell 354]

Bit of advice if possible. How can I find out where I'm losing time? I'm usually pretty good at driving games and I'm really struggling with the realistic dynamics of GT. 

[GazzaGarratt 11,066]

1 hour ago, Mikepjbell said:

Bit of advice if possible. How can I find out where I'm losing time? I'm usually pretty good at driving games and I'm really struggling with the realistic dynamics of GT. 

 

You can change the bottom right display to show sector times. I think you press right on the D-Pad. That's how I try and help myself understand where I need to work on the lap times.

 

Outside of that, i've been lucky that when i practiced, @Greboth or @phil bottle were on so i could ask how their sector times were working out. Outside of that, there might be a leaderboard with the best sector times in the world that could help? Also, do you fine tune your cars at all? That isn't my bag, other than having BoP on and making sure the tyres are on the relevant tyres (usually Racing Soft for any practice is the best i'm finding).

 

One last thought is also the fact you haven't got many cars to choose from at the start, whereas having multiple cars in each section will definitely help see what you can do with different styles of cars on the same track.

[Greboth 2,721]

On 9/28/2020 at 12:01 PM, Mikepjbell said:

Bit of advice if possible. How can I find out where I'm losing time? I'm usually pretty good at driving games and I'm really struggling with the realistic dynamics of GT. 

Lee mentioned set up but for the most part I'd ignore that.  Setups make a difference but for most of the racing you're likely to do in GT sport, Balance of Power (BoP) will be on and as such locks you to the default setup.  Further to that, setups can get you the last few percent but most of your time difference will be race craft.  To give some quantification to that, all my times set in the time trials and races we've had have all been on the default set up.

 

Some of these may be grandma sucking eggs but I'd rather include things you already know than miss something.  So some basic tips;

- Corners are about taking the biggest arc you can through them as the bigger arc you can take, the faster you go.  So make sure you're taking the outside-inside-outside line; if it's a right hand bend, start the corner as left as you can, turn in to clip the apex of the corner and let the car run back to left hand side of the track on the corner exit

- If you turn in and have to change your steering (so straighten or turn tighter) your turn in point is likely incorrect.  You want to turn in and maintain the steering angle until you straighten up out of the corner.

- The above also applies to throttle and brake.  Ideally you should hit the brakes once, turn in once and get on the throttle once.  If you find you need to get back on the brakes then you braked too late or need to carry some brake pressure in to the corner*, get back on the throttle early to maintain apex speed then you braked too much, if you're on throttle, off throttle, on , off on then you're either getting on throttle too earlier or too sharply.

-Use manual gears too - Every game (or almost every, there's always going to be an exception) is slower when using automatic gears.

 

And some specifically for GT Sport;

- GT Sport has several method for learning tracks and I would recommend not using the racing line as it's a crutch and it'll teach you bad habits.  The best in my opinion is the cones; these puts cones around the track as the outside apex, inside apex and outside apex with a pair of cones being used before corners for the braking point.  The gear indicator will also flash red when it thinks you've passed the braking point with the number being the gear it thinks you should use.  Generally these are a bit conservative but while you're learning they're a good starting point.  As you learn a car and track combo you'll learn which braking zones you can take later, which corners you take fast enough to be in a higher gear etc.

- Turn down Traction control (TC).  GT spot is horrible in it's implementation of TC and it can cost seconds per lap.  If you're not comfortable jumping straight to no TC, turn it down as low as your comfortable then as you get more experience, turn it down 1 more, then another until you're only using 1 or none.  With a controller, I'd recommend the maximum being 1 but only for Gr3 and above and maybe some of the fast road cars like N800 or above.

- As Lee said, you can see your best sector times and your best lap time by pressing left or right on the dpad to cycle through the options.  You can then keep an eye on your lap times each lap as you experiment to see which lines are faster (or slower).

 

*Time is won (or lost) by minimum apex speeds; that is the slowest point of each corner.  In a perfect world, you brake all the way to the apex of the corner and as soon as you hit the apex you start applying throttle to accelerate out.  This is called trail braking and it is hard, and I mean HARD, to do well.  A tyre has a maximum amount of grip; for road cars this is typically about 1g (race cars are more on slicks and especially so with downforce).  Sticking to 1g though, this 1g can be used for braking or cornering.  With trail braking the aim is to do both but it's a balancing act.  The straight before a corner you're using 0g for turning, as you turn in this will increase and at the apex you'll be using the whole 1g for corner.  As you straighten up on corner exit, this will again reduce back to 0g cornering.  I'm making up figures here for demonstration purposes but at initial turn in you might be using 0.25g of the tyres grip for cornering, halfway from turn in to apex 0.5g and 3/4th to the apex 0.75g before hitting your full 1g at the apex.  As the tyre can manage 1 g total then you can use the remaining 0.75g, 0.5g and 0.25g respectively for braking.  Brake to hard or steer too much and you exceed the 1g and will understeer, brake too little and then you'll potentially going too fast and run wide - either way costing you time.

 

Also if you want, when you've set a good time for combo save the recording and upload the video here.  I'll happily take a look at it and point out where you're losing time.  Or alternatively, say what combo you're doing and I'll record a lap so you can see the lines, braking points, gears etc. that I use.

[GazzaGarratt 11,066]

@Greboth @phil bottle do you know what the track and car type is yet?

 

Also, just a thought to add each week was still have a time trial time for Fastest Lap as people like Gary @techno  can't join whilst he's on lates but he fancied giving the track and timings a go. Might only have to be an easy thing we add to keep an eye on?

[phil bottle 9,822]

1 minute ago, GazzaGarratt said:

@Greboth @phil bottle do you know what the track and car type is yet?

 

Also, just a thought to add each week was still have a time trial time for Fastest Lap as people like Gary @techno  can't join whilst he's on lates but he fancied giving the track and timings a go. Might only have to be an easy thing we add to keep an eye on?

Just done the calendar lol

 

Yeah, if you enter the daily race but just record a qualifying lap time instead of going the race, the time gets recorded for all your friends to compare.

[JBR-Kiwi 286]

Just wanted to say good races last night guys. Was good to see that was incredibly close in qualifying with positions 2-5 being covered by only a couple of tenths with myself @GazzaGarratt @phil bottle fighting over who got the runner up spot, and @Greboth just pissing all over us in the Lexus IS F. Was interesting to see just how popular the Peugeot RCZ was for Gr4 racing tho.
 

last nights racing really did highlight just how few cars I actually have as I was struggling in that 2nd race with only two cars I could choose from. 

[GazzaGarratt 11,066]

18 hours ago, JBR-Kiwi said:

Just wanted to say good races last night guys. Was good to see that was incredibly close in qualifying with positions 2-5 being covered by only a couple of tenths with myself @GazzaGarratt @phil bottle fighting over who got the runner up spot, and @Greboth just pissing all over us in the Lexus IS F. Was interesting to see just how popular the Peugeot RCZ was for Gr4 racing tho.
 

last nights racing really did highlight just how few cars I actually have as I was struggling in that 2nd race with only two cars I could choose from. 

 

This week's racing was another great week for sure! Nice to see Pete, @phil bottle's mate jump in too after his debut last week.

 

A cracking race to start with, I really do see how tyre wear and potential options to pit brings in different options that could happen. There's no getting away from how @Greboth would spank us every time if we were in just the same cars, no degradation or fuel consumption but with those switched on, it allows us to make certain different decisions.

 

 

First race was an epic one with @JBR-Kiwi  and Greebs pushing to a good 7-8 second lead over Phil, Pete and myself. I was able to get more traction with the RCZ than the other Gr.4 cars, having said that we just couldn't draw the gap close to the top 2 as they were driving incredibly hard. So as the 2 mini races developed, Greebs took the lead briefly and decided to go into the pits. He took the early pit lane but unfortunately the game thought he missed a corner so jumped him backwards a few seconds. Equally Kiwi's tyres weren't degraded as much so he carried on around to see how they would react.

 

Equally, Phil was only a second behind me when he pitted to try and undercut me in 3rd. That is, until I decided to stay out as well and see how far the hard tyres would last the 9 lap race.

 

Phil and Greebs were significantly quicker for the last 4 laps with the gap of c.30 seconds between the battle for 1st and 3rd was shortening each corner. Unfortunately, @Greboth probably needed one more lap whereas Phil steered himself down to 2 seconds behind me half way around the last lap, only for him to slide too much off one corner giving me enough space to retain 3rd by a few seconds. Super racing.

 

 

 

 

As only Kiwi, Greebs and myself were left afterwards we tried a small track with N200 cars (I think?) and another tight race with no pits involved. I finished 0.9 seconds behind Greboth with Kiwi staying close until coming off the track with a few laps to spare. I really could've had top spot if I hadn't have slid off myself after the 3rd lap.

 

Great little racing we've got going. Really enjoying the qualifying too. GGFG peeps.

[phil bottle 9,822]

I was just behind Greebs on the first lap when Pete booted me off into the gravel with an epically late brake, though he did go the gentlemanly thing and wait. He's not loving BOP😅

While that killed my chances of fighting for 1st it was fun then trying to catch up with Lee. I need to mute Lee actually cos he puts me off my racing by about a second a lap😂🤗

[Greboth 2,721]

The races were fun last night, still annoyed about the reset as it cost me the chance of the win.  Though unnecessarily pitting didn't help either but I didn't want Lee to moan about me not pitting again 🤣 Still, I suppose I should accept I can't win them all.

 

The official classification from this weeks races;

 

 

[phil bottle 9,822]

This week we will focus on Gr.3 Sardengna A II

 

I'll set it back up for Tuesday from 9pm but let me know if that's a problem and I can adjust.

[Greboth 2,721]

Come one, come all lets go racing!

 

[phil bottle 9,822]

Great racing this week. Nice having 6 on the track and, although some are faster than others, no-one is getting left behind.

 

Loved the N300 race at the end too, we should try a new track for that each week if we have time, there are some smaller Willow Springs tracks that we could use, for example.

[GazzaGarratt 11,066]

3 hours ago, phil bottle said:

Great racing this week. Nice having 6 on the track and, although some are faster than others, no-one is getting left behind.

 

Loved the N300 race at the end too, we should try a new track for that each week if we have time, there are some smaller Willow Springs tracks that we could use, for example.

 

Couldn't agree more....although I can't think of a game where I get so annoyed with myself more than anything else in the world!

 

It was so tight on Qualifying for the first Sardegna race, I couldn't quite believe how close we are getting to each other if i'm honest. All 6 of us we're just over 3 seconds apart in the 10 minute Qualifying and a number of us were lapping even quicker than those times in practice. Great track selection this week.

 

 

What's great too, is that each week someone starts to perform better than others as we all try to get better each week. I think this week @Mikepjbell  made huge leaps and bounds imo as he challenged @JBR-Kiwi  and @Greboth at the start of the race. He managed to stick with Greebs for quite a while and hold off a consistent challenge from Kiwi, only for him to fall away on the last lap after hitting the barriers around the first hard bend. A role reversal in the second race meant Kiwi grabbed second although Mike yet again pushed him hard around the track.

 

I just didn't get to grips with the track properly at all, even though I could knock out a reasonably fast time, too many mistakes early doors allowed everyone else to get away. Pete struggled to keep the Huracan around the track first time round but was able to finish higher than @phil bottle in the first race as a few bad corners ended his race. However, Phil got a decent finish in the second race after being knocked out of top position by unfortunate collisions.

 

Greebs took an easier race win in the second race rather than the third, but Kiwi got his revenge in the last race of the night where his KTM was on fire around the small Kitscubi track, clocking 1 minute dead laps consistently to make a large lead ahead of Greebs that just couldn't keep the laps as consistent as Kiwi.

 

Another great night of racing, definitely learning a lot more about turning off Traction Control as well! GGFG

 

Race 1 Result

 

 

Race 2 Result

 

 

[Mikepjbell 354]

I really enjoyed the racing this week, we all seem to be very close and we're making small gains each week to get closer to Greebs.

 

I didn't enjoy the last race, it just felt like I couldn't get any power down in that Alpine. I suspect if I swap to another car I'll have more luck next time round rather than being lapped by everyone 😂😂

[JBR-Kiwi 286]

Was some pretty good races this week. 
 

First race for me was a proper struggle considering I had never seen the track before let alone turning some fast laps. Only managed to get one good lap in right at the end of quali which still ended up being nearly two seconds down on Greebs. 
 

 After a poor start in the first race it was a good race with @Mikepjbell where we each had sections which we excelled at but mike did well winning our duel.  
 

second race was pretty much the same with positions reversed between me and Mike and a soundtrack provided by Lee having a driving meltdown 😂

 

The last race was brilliant for me!! Seemed to hit a good groove on that track considering the horror that I had had the previous week. Like Lee said I think consistency really won the day. 
 

Need to work on the range of cars I can use as I’m struggling to use anything that doesn’t have a strong front end which is a trade off because I’m struggling in a straight line. 

[Mikepjbell 354]

14 hours ago, JBR-Kiwi said:

After a poor start in the first race it was a good race with @Mikepjbell .. and a soundtrack provided by Lee having a driving meltdown. 

 

Did anyone get a recording of Lee's meltdown? I need something to give me those happy vibes so I can sleep well at night 😂

[Spacedeck 920]

Thanks for the races.  It's unfortunate that my controller is bust, so I have a new one being delivered today.  Getting used to the right stick for acceleration and braking is pretty difficult and would take some time before I feel comfortable. I just can't work them as precisely as the triggers.

[phil bottle 9,822]

36 minutes ago, Spacedeck said:

Thanks for the races.  It's unfortunate that my controller is bust, so I have a new one being delivered today.  Getting used to the right stick for acceleration and braking is pretty difficult and would take some time before I feel comfortable. I just can't work them as precisely as the triggers.

So annoying for you but I'm glad it's getting sorted! Thanks for dropping in, I'm loving that we're getting a few more playing🤗

[Greboth 2,721]

It's a shame that for one reason or another everyone couldn't make it on for one race but it was still a good night of racing 🙂 It was good to see you there @Spacedeck You were a lot closer than I expected given your controller troubles so hopefully with a new controller you'll be in the mix.

 

Race 1: Gr.3 Autodrome Lago Maggiore II

This was an interesting race, for those not in the know the II at the end signifies that the circuit is being raced in the reverse directions.  So going in to practice with little experience of the reverse layout but plenty experience of the normal way round, I thought it would be easy to adapt - it wasn't.  The track drives completely different in the reverse configuration with plenty of tightening bends, blind corners and a few tricky braking zones.  I believe the Peugeot RCZ and Renault RS01 are topping the time sheets of qualifying and as I have an aversion for FWD, I took the Renault.  I couldn't get on with at first while I was learning the circuit so tried the BMW M6 which is nice and stable as well as the Nissan GTR which I was faster in but I found round Maggiore I was getting too much understeer.  As I knew the track better, I went back and tried the RS01 and it went much better, you can carry a lot more speed in to certain corners with the Renault than either the M6 or GTR.  The Renault almost has to be driven like the R8, get the back end sliding a little to help you through the corners, too little and you understeer too much and you're in trouble which does make it interesting throwing it in to T1 or through the fast chicanes in the middle of the lap.

 

Still on to qualifying and I manage to stick it on pole with, I think, my fastest lap of the night of 2:00.315 followed all close together of Kiwi 2:01.435, Phil 2:01.981 and Lee 2:02.236.  I think both Phil and Lee messed up their fastest laps else would have been faster but I'll let them tell their side.  The race started with a rolling start which always helps out with getting a clean start.  My first few laps were a little tentative but still fast enough to pull a small lead on Kiwi.  A mix of Kiwi making a mistake and me setting the fastest lap on lap 3 gave me some breathing room.  After that it was pretty much just drive clean to take the win easy right? Well no, All of us were OK for fuel for the 10 laps but tyres were questionable, being in the lead I knew I couldn't pit unless everyone else did as I would lose too much time and the win like in Suzuka.  So staying out was tricky, the first 5 or 6 laps weren't too bad but my rears were suffering.  By lap 8 onwards, the rears were really suffering and I was struggling to keep the ass in line through the fast corners and traction out of the slow corners was non-existent.  Thankfully, the tyre wear seemed to slow everyone down roughly equally so I could manage the gap to second place even if there were a few moments I thought I was going in to the wall.

 

Results:

 

 

Race 2: Interlagos Gr.4

Following the first race, we thought we'd another race from the daily races which was a choice of Gr2. at Nurburgring or Gr.4 at Interlagos.  Knowing some people don't have a Gr.2 car makes that choice easy.  Going in to practice, it was a mixed bag of not knowing what car to use.  Lee looked up the top 10 qualifying times which I think was the Peugeot again or Audi TT - whatever, another FWD car so a no from me 😆 I tried a few cars through practice and it was a choice of fast in sector 1 and 3 and suffer through the infield of sector 2 or slower in sector 1 and 3 but be better through sector 2.  The Lamborghini was very quick in Sector 1 and I was consistently fastest in it but by the end of Sector 2, I'd be down on the fastest and I'd make some of it back in Sector 3 but never enough.  This ultimately made my choice for me as I know the GT86 Gr.4 has a good front end on it to help through sector 2.

 

So on to qualifying, Not much to say for this, it was a quick 10 mins of qualifying ending with me on pole with a 1:40.314, Lee making the front row in 2nd with 1:41.061, Kiwi 3rd on a 1:41.573 and Spacedeck with controller problems in 4th with a 1:42.045.  On to the race, another race with fuel and tyre wear but it was quickly apparent neither were high enough to warrant taking a pit stop so a pure spring race.  A rolling start again made things easier (maybe we should always do a standing start?) and again a couple tentative laps to begin with especially as Lee was right on my tail.  At the end of lap 1, Lee was right on my tail coming out of the final corner with his superior straight line speed and drafting he got along side.  I covered the inside line hard to make Lee have to go the long way round which is possible at Interlagos as the outside of T1 quickly becomes the inside of T2.  I don't know whether Lee braked too early or was being a gentleman but I managed to hold the lead.  Unfortunately Lee made an error on Lap 2 (I think it was) giving me some breathing space and allowing me to take the normal racing line and get in the flow and set faster and faster laps with lap 3 being a high 41, lap 4, mid 41. lap 5 low 41 and the fastest lap of the race on lap 6 of 40.745 to extend my lead to a comfortable margin.  I think over the rest of the race Lee made a few more mistakes allowing Kiwi to catch him with Kiwi being victorious in that battle and taking 2nd, Lee following in 3rd and Spacedeck in fourth.

 

[phil bottle 9,822]

For me to drive as I'm capable of, I may have to mute Lee and Greboth. What's the opposite of coaching? Well that's what I'm dealing with, whatever it is.

 

😅

[GazzaGarratt 11,066]

Great races and great write up @Greboth. First race was a miserable one for me as I couldn't nail down a car in practice, started with RCZ, went through about 8 cars, then came back to it before Qualifying. Qualifying was probably the best part for me as it showed me i'm still getting closer to the faster people here but the race just was a nightmare from the off. Came off the track early and never recovered. I think going backwards around that track really didn't help my driving style.

 

Second race started so well for me, and I probably was too soft on you Greebs when you closed the door on me once or twice. I felt fast so it was annoying when i braked too late at the end of lap 2 which allowed you to pull away and ended any chances of me catching up. Frustratingly, I kept making silly errors late braking one corner then braking too early next corner as i was off my rhythm I built up in the first 2 laps. This allowed Kiwi finally past me.

 

A hard night in the cockpit for me, hopefully can rectify my bad habits of braking at incorrect spots next week. Special note to @Spacedeck  jumping and getting involved. The fact you stayed, messed around with your controller to get it to work a different way and came close on your Qualifying in that second race was incredible! Really hope you're around for next time too. Its definitely more fun more and more FGers are taking the plunge to all race together.

[Greboth 2,721]

40 minutes ago, phil bottle said:

For me to drive as I'm capable of, I may have to mute Lee and Greboth. What's the opposite of coaching? Well that's what I'm dealing with, whatever it is.

 

😅

 

But I'll miss your dulcet tones 😢 Though ti is funny how much talking distracts you from racing 🤣

 

38 minutes ago, GazzaGarratt said:

Great races and great write up @Greboth. First race was a miserable one for me as I couldn't nail down a car in practice, started with RCZ, went through about 8 cars, then came back to it before Qualifying. Qualifying was probably the best part for me as it showed me i'm still getting closer to the faster people here but the race just was a nightmare from the off. Came off the track early and never recovered. I think going backwards around that track really didn't help my driving style.

 

Second race started so well for me, and I probably was too soft on you Greebs when you closed the door on me once or twice. I felt fast so it was annoying when i braked too late at the end of lap 2 which allowed you to pull away and ended any chances of me catching up. Frustratingly, I kept making silly errors late braking one corner then braking too early next corner as i was off my rhythm I built up in the first 2 laps. This allowed Kiwi finally past me.

 

A hard night in the cockpit for me, hopefully can rectify my bad habits of braking at incorrect spots next week. Special note to @Spacedeck  jumping and getting involved. The fact you stayed, messed around with your controller to get it to work a different way and came close on your Qualifying in that second race was incredible! Really hope you're around for next time too. Its definitely more fun more and more FGers are taking the plunge to all race together.

 

Yeah you did back out of it early, especially given T1 at Interlagos is one of the best overaking places on the lap.  Obviously this isn't racing like GTA or Wreckfest but you were plenty alongside to have the right to challenge the corner.  Though TBH I'm glad you didn't get passed as the 2 main overtaking places are T1 and T4, both preceded by long straights and your car was quicker in a straight line than mine and I don't know if the tow would have been enough to overcome that.  So I could have ended up stuck behind you with little chance to overtake you.

 

It is good to see everyone getting closer, less than 2 seconds covering us all and taking my pole out then it's less than a second covering everyone this week.  It's getting close enough, I'm really thinking I might have to start doing some practice on Monday nights 😆 As you said though, it's the consistency and getting out of rhythm that lets you down and I think this is true for Phil, Mike and Pete too.  It comes with practise and experience so the more races we do, especially as we're generally sticking with gr3 & gr4. the better you will get.

[Spacedeck 920]

 

Midnight Blue is one of the looking controllers on the market! Also new grips to protect them sticks, which also included some grips for the triggers, something I've never seen before.

[phil bottle 9,822]

I'll be setting up the calendar event for Gran Turismo later. If there's any requests about date or time, let me know!