Season 2 Delayed

[J4MES OX4D 10,033]

1 hour ago, GazzaGarratt said:

I agree @IRaMPaGe, I definitely think they are holding some maps back. I think its like what I said on previous threads that developers break the game up now to deliver over time so it feels like fresh (not always new) content is delivered because its nearly impossible to meet what gamers want on the regular fresh content drops.

I don't mind withheld content as long as we receive 100% of the base game to start with. MW2 is probably 40% complete on launch and by the time 12 months is up, then maybe we'll get 100% of a game - something 10 years ago we would get on day one. As the year wore on, we'd then get another 50% of a game to enjoy through paid content. Vanguard last year released with more content than any other COD game and that should be the expectation for every release going forward - MW2 launched with 66% LESS 6v6 content than Vanguard which is insane. There needs to be a minimum entry threshold and something like 16 original maps with then 4 new ones per season guaranteed. The only maps they are probably holding back right now is ones they can pluck from the Warzone 2 one and I think they are winging it in every other respect.  

 

I also don't buy into the logic that because they are supporting other MP playlists within, that means content quantity should be spread - I don't want to lose the prospect of 3 6v6 maps in return for an extra Ground War map for example. There's no reason why we can't have 16 6v6 maps, 6 Ground War and then 2 Battle Royal ones right out the gate and why they can't produce 3 new maps and a GW map on top. There are more developers than ever working on these titles backed by insane budgets compared to what the franchise had a decade ago so having less content and it being spread more thinly just doesn't suffice for me and it's absolutely killing the game right now so much so, it's going to be very hard to bring people back. 

 

The post-launch support just isn't up to par - season delays, unclear roadmap and a lack of content and this is on top of a sparse launch. The likes of Epic already have Fortnite's 2024 roadmap completed yet Activision now seem to be toying with whether to launch COD 2023 as DLC or a brand new game. This is just no way to run a franchise or live service and what's tragic is this is actually a good game underneath - it's just let down by an awful seemingly non-existent forwarding strategy which should not be expected by such a longstanding and experienced series. 

[GazzaGarratt 11,049]

1 hour ago, MrBiron said:

It's not nearly impossible. All regular 6v6 players want is 3/4 maps every new season. I don't think that's an unreasonable request. Even if it was 2 new and remastered then I'm sure people would be fine with that.

This season is just a poor effort. 1 remaster and one that was removed from the game to start with. That's just not good enough when the game launched with few 6v6 maps in the first place.

 

I sometimes wish we had a developer insight into this. I get the thoughts and wishes, I really do. But none of us have created maps from scratch and the process it takes to get one into a working game. When other games have shared this process of brand new map design, from AAA games like Overwatch and Destiny, they've been very honest in how long it takes. We've never had 3-4 new maps on Overwatch, Destiny or any other multiplayer game that I can think of in a 3 month window, and every 3 months at that.

 

The only one that could possibly do that type of regular content drop is Epic with Fortnite. But thats got 2 factors; 1) Their game has very basic formats to it and not a 6v6 multiplayer game (One gamemode so tweaks to one very big map) and 2) they love to crunch their developers as past news has shared.

 

Here's an interesting thought that could've been a separate thread - Would people go for their very own map creation tool in CoD? A bit like what Doom has? Its clearly using all the same assets but looking at where Fortnite has become so popular, its in its homebrew games that anybody on the internet has made and people go for that stuff like its the Toy of the Century sale at Christmas. I think our demographic here probably wouldn't care too much as we want stuff into core basic playlists, but after all in the end we're talking about one gamemode essentially (6v6) and thats not much more you can evolve that type of game.

[phil bottle 9,754]

CoD used to have a nice variety of maps, and they were all done very well, all very different and all very memorable. Its a long time since I enjoyed the maps in a CoD.

[IRaMPaGe 3,236]

17 hours ago, GazzaGarratt said:

 

We may be missing something though about the fact that this one is made by Infinity Ward so returning maps are likely to come from only their assets than the others. Its why Dome is back and I would expect Rust to come in eventually as James mentioned before as they did create it. I wouldn't know if maps have crossed over between developers but I wouldn't expect much have, if ever.

 

 

Whether we like it or not, the Developers are asked by Activision to churn out a new game every couple of years which means they dedicate a large portion of that time to the Campaign and re-use old assets where possible. If you don't re-use assets its widely known brand new games take around 7 years to create, especially AAA games. So within a few years they focus efforts on what Activision want. Yep, old maps after a while are annoying if thats all you get but thats where I'd expect a new map every so often to balance out the map pool.

 

 

I don't see that from FGers and most other places I read about CoD. Damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

 

I want to be clear I don't like whats happened to most CoDs and the model that Activision have been following for years. What we all agree here I can largely see is that CoD needs a culture shift under the hood to a different type of Multiplayer development pattern, maybe one that matches the likes of Overwatch.

 

But what we can do is also realise that this isn't where they are now, so I'm looking at this game on its on merit on how fun the gameplay is and how much content we have to play on it. Season 2 looks okay. Not bad, but not super great either. I think sometimes we'd all do ourselves some favours if we could open our minds to how it feels on both sides rather than just saying a game is crap 'just cos'. I see the same thoughts in how Destiny was over the years and it turned out stronger. Not sure this franchise will go the same way, but for right here right now, there is no surprise to me why so many FGers are enjoying a CoD game for once, and maps not being new won't change that feeling a massive amount.

 

Maybe by Season 3 though it will as burnout starts to hit if the game goes too long without enough variety in the game. Meaning New and Returning content btw 🙂

 

Yeah I was just stating my favourites from BO1, I didn't expect to get any of these in this release because of the crossover of games and developers. 

 

It's funny you mention Dome tho because it was originally a Treyarch World At War map. 

Infinity Ward used it for MW3, Think Sledgehammer used it for COD Ghosts? They definitely used it for Vanguard. 

Then IW use it again for MW2. 

I would say Dome is the perfect crossover example as it's been used by all 3 developers. No map has ever been crossed as much as that one. 

 

Although rare it can happen. 

[J4MES OX4D 10,033]

55 minutes ago, GazzaGarratt said:

I sometimes wish we had a developer insight into this. I get the thoughts and wishes, I really do. But none of us have created maps from scratch and the process it takes to get one into a working game.

Sledgehammer created 20 original maps in 14 months of development with 10% of the staff IW had at the time. IW created several decent original maps and other real-world ones for MW2 that were met with legalities but soared in detail so they are perfectly capable but something is clearly butchered with the post-launch support. It's possible that most of the team have been moved onto the next project and all that's left is a skeleton crew of asset designers. 

 

55 minutes ago, GazzaGarratt said:

Would people go for their very own map creation tool in CoD?

Black Ops 3 already had an open SDK of this and custom maps have been a thing since COD 4. People have even created custom zombie maps and even full campaigns. I've probably played on about 70 custom maps through Plutonium and other clients using a mix of the old Q3 engine up to the ID tech used in BO3 and some of the originality and imagination that goes into these maps is amazing and that's because it's made by passionate long-term fans. Some have even built high-end asset libraries for more complex and detailed environments. Sadly this material will never make it into the core and it would be seen as the developer's passing the buck, but it's entirely possible to concoct quality maps from scratch without having to recycle anything.

 

A new mainstream open tool would be beneficial for the more ambitious creators but I don't think it would integrate well in the game itself. Even Halo Infinite Forge has really struggled and that's supposed to offer a decade of material. 

[cyberninja2601 1,106]

12 hours ago, J4MES OX4D said:

 

Also as you don’t play the paid MP portion, what right do you then have to lambaste anyone who does play it of their concerns? Bit weird gatekeeping part of a game you don’t even play. Stick to playing bots on freebie DMZ made by another developer. That bears no relation to the MP.

 

Mulitiplayer stats

 

- 5 days and 54 m  so about 121 hours

- Games played 782. I play DOM, KC, Hardpoint and TDM if I really really have to. 

- W/L  1.13

- highest KS 25

- Highest K/G  61

 

I'd say I play far more than just bots on DMZ (which are a hell of a lot tougher than players on MP most of the time). 

 

Additionally all co-ops completed

Raid completed (not worth it)

DMZ no idea as they don't keep stats but almost all tier 3 missions done and got the M13

WZ I think I have something like 40 games. Not sure

 

 

 

 

 

[techno 3,510]

Not sure where to stick this but here it is.

[MrBiron 1,453]

So we're getting an ACTUAL NEW MAP? Thanks Activision for providing us with the bare minimum content for the "most supported game in COD history" (or whatever bollocks they said this game would be) 🙄

[GazzaGarratt 11,049]

50 minutes ago, MrBiron said:

So we're getting an ACTUAL NEW MAP? Thanks Activision for providing us with the bare minimum content for the "most supported game in COD history" (or whatever bollocks they said this game would be) 🙄

 

I'm happy. Its a new map, better than no map and not a returning one.

[J4MES OX4D 10,033]

14 hours ago, techno said:

Not sure where to stick this but here it is.

If the MP team keep this pace up, we should get at least 3 new maps for the rest of the year! This is groundbreaking considering they only have 450 employees at their disposal😎

[GazzaGarratt 11,049]

@J4MES OX4D, surely Rodney out of Only Fools and Horses has got to be happy about some things in life surely?! 🤣🤣 Biron is a Leeds fan so there is no hope for him already 😅🤣

[MrBiron 1,453]

5 hours ago, GazzaGarratt said:

@J4MES OX4D, surely Rodney out of Only Fools and Horses has got to be happy about some things in life surely?! 🤣🤣 Biron is a Leeds fan so there is no hope for him already 😅🤣

 

At least we're in the Premier League 😉