Starfield

[Luseth 1,960]

I set this to pre-install yesterday on my Series S, I am quite excited for this game (Though keeping my optimism in check knowing some of the recent disappointments within the gaming industry). I am unsure about whether I will play it through on there or the ROG yet.

 

Something I did think about, with how ambitious this game is and it still being released on the Series S, I know a lot of other devs are complaining about the lack of power in the S but it seems more to me that they would have to spend time making it work on there as well as the X which would presumably eat into profits? So it's easier to complain at this point?

[TurboR56Mini 967]

I have it pre-installed on game pass for PC. Nice I don't have to buy a Xbox for it. Especially since it's single player. I'm excited for it. But then again, I got platinum on NMS at launch so there's that. Space is always a win for me.

[phil bottle 9,763]

I have gamepass but I might just be sad enough to buy it on Steam. Will certainly need a Steam version for modding, although I'll play it vanilla first.

 

Still expecting hilarious bugs upon release.

 

My favourite in New Vegas was being shot by raiders 40 foot in the air apparently immune to gravity 😅

[Luseth 1,960]

9 hours ago, phil bottle said:

I have gamepass but I might just be sad enough to buy it on Steam. Will certainly need a Steam version for modding, although I'll play it vanilla first.

 

Still expecting hilarious bugs upon release.

 

My favourite in New Vegas was being shot by raiders 40 foot in the air apparently immune to gravity 😅

 

I think people forget bugs in a game can make for some of the most memorable in games!

[J4MES OX4D 10,036]

21 hours ago, Luseth said:

Something I did think about, with how ambitious this game is and it still being released on the Series S, I know a lot of other devs are complaining about the lack of power in the S but it seems more to me that they would have to spend time making it work on there as well as the X which would presumably eat into profits? So it's easier to complain at this point?

S is definitely holding developers back significantly with high-end technologies such as Unreal Engine 5 especially with Phil Spencer promising that every game on their current iteration would run at 60fps guaranteed - something Starfield wont. Devs are having to make a secondary version of their games with key optimisation features omitted and this takes and wastes time especially for a small and rather needless market. Microsoft also don't accept publishers skipping the S so they are forced to produce scaled-down versions for a far smaller market. Unreal 4/old gen games will remain for the next 3 years because Microsoft are holding games back and developers will also have to sit on the likes of UE4 a while longer rather than utilise UE5 as well as removing current gen tech such as ray tracing and dynamic upscaling. 

 

It's different with Starfield as it's an in-house game some time really doesn't matter about time and the Creation Engine is so old, it's still capable of making really expansive offline experiences. It's still possible that the S version of Starfield is another PS4 Cyberpunk and we've yet to see any gameplay from this version. It should run fine though.

 

I wish Microsoft would stop releasing weaker consoles by intent to double-dip the market and increase unit sales though. The less powerful counterparts like the S have attractive price-points i.e £250 but after a couple of years, people will end up having to spend full price on the big brother console or run the risk of their games eventually not being supported or being stripped bare of features as well as performance woes. It just costs people more in the long run and even with this tactic, MS still struggle to sell units anywhere near Sony and Nintentdo. 

[TurboR56Mini 967]

Why I won't buy an Xbox. Had a 360, used it like 5 times, gave it to friends kid. The PC side will always be better from the MS/Xbox side of things. We will stick to PS/PC I think. And @phil bottle I'm definitely not opposed to buying it on Steam but it's cool to play day one for "free" since I forgot I had game pass in the first place lol. 

[J4MES OX4D 10,036]

Just seen that Starfield wasn't actually playable at Gamescom. A lot of very scripted marketing chat but not a single scrap of independent gameplay shown. Bit of a shame really - I don't think it's a case of the game not being as good as portrayed like how No Mans Sky and Cyberpunk were hidden until the 11th hour but it would've been nice to see them put their money where they mouth was and showcase some of the features they've been talking about.

 

A few of the usual suspects that said Cyberpunk was a bugless, flawless masterpiece are armed with review copies so I'd take what they say pre-release with a pinch of salt in light of this. 

[J4MES OX4D 10,036]

This may not be up for long 

 

[Luseth 1,960]

23 hours ago, J4MES OX4D said:

S is definitely holding developers back significantly with high-end technologies such as Unreal Engine 5 especially with Phil Spencer promising that every game on their current iteration would run at 60fps guaranteed - something Starfield wont. Devs are having to make a secondary version of their games with key optimisation features omitted and this takes and wastes time especially for a small and rather needless market. Microsoft also don't accept publishers skipping the S so they are forced to produce scaled-down versions for a far smaller market. Unreal 4/old gen games will remain for the next 3 years because Microsoft are holding games back and developers will also have to sit on the likes of UE4 a while longer rather than utilise UE5 as well as removing current gen tech such as ray tracing and dynamic upscaling. 

 

It's different with Starfield as it's an in-house game some time really doesn't matter about time and the Creation Engine is so old, it's still capable of making really expansive offline experiences. It's still possible that the S version of Starfield is another PS4 Cyberpunk and we've yet to see any gameplay from this version. It should run fine though.

 

I wish Microsoft would stop releasing weaker consoles by intent to double-dip the market and increase unit sales though. The less powerful counterparts like the S have attractive price-points i.e £250 but after a couple of years, people will end up having to spend full price on the big brother console or run the risk of their games eventually not being supported or being stripped bare of features as well as performance woes. It just costs people more in the long run and even with this tactic, MS still struggle to sell units anywhere near Sony and Nintentdo. 

 

I think you're missing the point with the S though, yes people who bought it may have to upgrade down the road to a Series X, however a large portion of those who have bought the S have double dipped, so are more sony based players that now have an Xbox (some for the first time because it was so affordable). That may entice them to give the whole Xbox ecosystem a go, and in addition to that upgrading your console mid generation is nothing new. The last generation had PS4 Pro's mid way through, Xbox one had it's more powerful brother, the Switch has had a Switch OLED midway through it's life, the PS3 / 360 era had slim versions.

 

Yeah the Series S might not be capable of running Unreal Engine 5, but for £250 right now you can buy a console that is capable of running 2 of the most anticipated titles of the year, Starfield and now it has been announced Baldurs Gate (with the exception of local co-op). Find a PC that can play both of those for £250? Oh wait normally it's just tough sh*t if your pc can not run a game, at least Microsoft have offered an option that is affordable during a cost of living crisis. Heck Sony just announced a portable handheld for only £50 cheaper and it can't run native games and can't even utilise their streaming service.

 

It is only gamers who are shall I say more elitist that have real complaints about the Series S. Unreal 4 games will remain yes but that's not wholly due to Microsoft, there is nothing to stop devs creating games specifically for the PS5 / PC and then relaunching down the road on the Xbox to generate extra funds, heck they do this all the time at the moment with some of the sh*tty remasters they keep releasing. Unreal engine 5 is not the only way to progress and move games forwards, yeah it will help graphically but games are so much more than just visuals.

 

My final note, I will put the link below as well, the Larian Studios CEO has stated in a recent interview it's not the Series S but more the lack of effort from devs. They want things to be quick, easy and so that they can churn stuff out to maximum profit, it's why we have so little ingenuity within modern triple A games. It comes through at indie level because they have to think about how they can make their games stand out, be a little bit different. If you look back at the history of video games, even back to the 16 bit era, development was so much more, coming up with ideas on how to get a game to run on a specific machine, overcoming the problems that machine might have had.

 

It's easy to just blame a console but we have seen in the past how the lack of a consoles power can be overcome if you think outside the box a little -

Resi Evil 2 on the N64

Morrowind on the original Xbox

And probably my favourite game, the Witcher 3 on the Switch

[J4MES OX4D 10,036]

33 minutes ago, Luseth said:

It's easy to just blame a console but we have seen in the past how the lack of a consoles power can be overcome if you think outside the box a little -

Resi Evil 2 on the N64

Morrowind on the original Xbox

And probably my favourite game, the Witcher 3 on the Switch

Those games were released after their mainline counterparts were completed and did not impact development. The big complaint from developers and publishers currently is them being restricted and having to essentially scale back or produce two different versions of their games simultaneously - this not only reduces the quality and potential of the product but can see timescales increase. Resident Evil 2 N64 is a perfect example because the project was offloaded to a small studio, who in a year were able to optimise the already-completed Playstation build and release it as a standalone a year later. This did not impact the original game, it did not hold back development and an N64 version was not taken into consideration throughout either. It was a welcome surprise but the gap between the PS and N64 was not as wide as it it is with the S and Series X especially in terms of internal technologies and optimisation scales. 

 

Nowadays developers are having to produce games with the S in mind - it's nothing more than an Xbox One X.2 integrated into this generation. Sure it has an attractive price-point for for £200 more, you could get the big brother and use it the entire generation. Plop it on finance and you can pay for it over 5+ years rather than pay £250 now and then another £450 down the line. The S will probably stop receiving support before 2025 and a lot of developers will have already twisted Microsoft's arm in mandatory support by then because it's going to prove more and more unworkable.

 

Many developers including Remedy and Larian (who are struggling with developing Baldur's Gate 3 for Xbox currently) have been pretty vocal about this 

Control Developer Explains Why Xbox Series S Is a Problem for Devs

GAMERANT.COM

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One of Remedy Entertainment's devs chimes in on the Xbox Series S, explaining why the low-spec console is a problem for the developers.

 

[GazzaGarratt 11,053]

I'll be having to think how and when I can get to play this once I'm back from holiday.

 

In separate news, just saw this on Twitter/X to help some Series S users with the game on Baldurs Gate so I'd think they'd be working ways to improve Starfield too on the S over time.

 

[Luseth 1,960]

3 hours ago, J4MES OX4D said:

Those games were released after their mainline counterparts were completed and did not impact development. The big complaint from developers and publishers currently is them being restricted and having to essentially scale back or produce two different versions of their games simultaneously - this not only reduces the quality and potential of the product but can see timescales increase. Resident Evil 2 N64 is a perfect example because the project was offloaded to a small studio, who in a year were able to optimise the already-completed Playstation build and release it as a standalone a year later. This did not impact the original game, it did not hold back development and an N64 version was not taken into consideration throughout either. It was a welcome surprise but the gap between the PS and N64 was not as wide as it it is with the S and Series X especially in terms of internal technologies and optimisation scales. 

 

Nowadays developers are having to produce games with the S in mind - it's nothing more than an Xbox One X.2 integrated into this generation. Sure it has an attractive price-point for for £200 more, you could get the big brother and use it the entire generation. Plop it on finance and you can pay for it over 5+ years rather than pay £250 now and then another £450 down the line. The S will probably stop receiving support before 2025 and a lot of developers will have already twisted Microsoft's arm in mandatory support by then because it's going to prove more and more unworkable.

 

Many developers including Remedy and Larian (who are struggling with developing Baldur's Gate 3 for Xbox currently) have been pretty vocal about this 

Control Developer Explains Why Xbox Series S Is a Problem for Devs

GAMERANT.COM

---

One of Remedy Entertainment's devs chimes in on the Xbox Series S, explaining why the low-spec console is a problem for the developers.

 

 

Not entirely sure where you are going with this. It is a commercial decision as to what consoles you develop a game for, they can simply say we won't release the game on xbox then... There is no reason for it to affect development if they do not want it too. We see console exclusive games all of the time. If a game does not run on a console you wouldn't release it on it i.e. it's why you don't get the latest version of Fifa on the Switch (well you get a different version), you don't get COD on the Switch. All those games were released later on after much refinement maybe but I am failing to see why that can't happen with the Xbox? Why does a game have to launch right away on the console (in fact with it having a lesser uptake than the Playstation surely it's going to make financial sense to focus on a PS version of a game anyway).

 

It might be just me but reading your post reads like you have not read mine properly and you have not read the link you provided, just to snippet a line I can pull out straight away counters your comment about Larian being vocal about the power of the Series S. They have been vocal in that yes there has been more work involved but not necassarily that they can not release games on it due to it being underpowered -

 

Quote

Puha's statement comes after Baldur's Gate 3 boss said Series S isn't problematic for game development

 

Again referring back to my previous post, Baldurs Gate has been announced as coming to the xbox, just that the Series S version will not have local co-op. The reason for this is down to the lesser RAM and not necassarily the console being underpowered because of the way they have designed local co-op (to be independant of one another).

 

Final note, it is easy to say ah just pop the extra on finance and get the more powerful console but it is never as simple as that, we have families in the UK struggling to feed themselves, foodbank use at it's highest and with mortgage rates the way they are there are plenty of families (I know a couple) who are currently fearful of losing their homes. Finding a couple of hundred quid to buy a next gen console for their child and bring them some joy is far easier than committing to double that, and taking it out on finance. When you are in a much more privileged position it is far easier to say ah why don't people just stump up the extra £200 for a bigger more powerful console.

 

There may well come a point where Microsoft let the Series S go and it will be replaced with the Series S-2, I mean it's no different to buying a new mobile phone, your older one stops getting the updates etc despite being on the same OS for example.

 

Saying that it affects development is an odd sentence, well of course it would, I don't know about you but if I was to produce a video game, I would have to consider all the machines it was going to be played in. If I was to make a PC game for example, I would look at the range of pc's that currently use Steam and would have to consider if it could cater to them all, if it can't then I make a decision on whether or not I limit the game to reach a bigger audience or I don't and let it achieve the heights it can, that's literally how the industry works. I don't see the same developers sitting their complaining that people choosing to game on pc's from 2010 are affecting development and they need to do away with them. Oh no wait they just ignore them....

[Luseth 1,960]

1 hour ago, GazzaGarratt said:

I'll be having to think how and when I can get to play this once I'm back from holiday.

 

In separate news, just saw this on Twitter/X to help some Series S users with the game on Baldurs Gate so I'd think they'd be working ways to improve Starfield too on the S over time.

 

 

I said this in my post above, I just forgot to post the link! Woops!! 😄

 

 

[J4MES OX4D 10,036]

2 hours ago, Luseth said:

*snip

Because Microsoft have made it abundantly clear that all 3rd party games must release on both the Series consoles simultaneously unless there are exceptional circumstances. Larian had to negotiate with Phil Spencer a way which BG3 could be played on the S and meet MS's requirements without the product being withdrawn at either end. This is not a normal circumstance and proves how difficult it is to meet the requirement set by Microsoft having this console in place. Losing local co-op on a game of this nature is an absolute hammer blow and this is a rare case of users knowing a feature has been removed - how many games in development and that have been released whereby features have been omitted because they are having to work in-line with the Series S. VRAM is the most critical aspect of these consoles so this BG3 issue is stark proof and this is also a 6 year old game with a fairly tried and tested engine. 

 

Developers have been very clear on the limitations and restrictions going on for a year now. EA release FIFA on Switch simply for extra money - they launched the same game 4 years in a row with merely squad updates and they are very clear about this. FIFA 22 was still FIFA 19 in everything but name. It's not comparable because Nintendo do not have any stipulations that multiplatform games are to launch simultaneously with their rival counterparts and what is expected of them. EA are not doing it to cater to Nintendo fans - they are just oozing as much dosh as possible and are self-publishing through Nintendo's open market. MS's publication contract requires that softwares are compatible with all current systems and this is where devs are being challenged and limited. There are absolutely stacks of interviews and information about this all over the net. 

 

You also mentioned mobile phone upgrades and that just highlights my point - Apple stop supporting older models to push users towards newer iterations and because maintaining older and outdated frameworks hamper growth development of apps and services. There is also not one developer in existence who looks at Steam's hardware survey to determine how to make a game - they do not limit themselves in this way. If they want to swerve MAC, Linux, Win7+ because it holds them back or wastes time then they will do this and many do.  It's not 'elitist' to be concerned about how the Series S is holding things back and certainly developers must feel rather frustrated  - people bought into this current gen with huge expectations. The S is a bizarre bridge between the One X and Series X and just another Microsoft unit filler. Starfield and Baldurs Gate 3 may be huge games but they can be ran at max settings on a 8 year old PC. Those are games that have been in development for 6+ years as it is but for proper next gen titles, they will likely have to be scaled back just to suit a minority and their publication contract with Microsoft. 

 

[J4MES OX4D 10,036]

Geezer got arrested🤣

The Starfield Leaker Has Been Arrested, His Apology to Todd Howard Not Enough to Avoid Jail

WCCFTECH.COM

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The story of the infamous Starfield leaker hasn't ended well, as the man was recently arrested for theft of property, among other things

 

[phil bottle 9,763]

I'm mostly avoiding Starfield news now, as I don't want spoilers, but we all love that juicy word 'controversy' 😅

 

 

[J4MES OX4D 10,036]

The boundary situation kinda leaves me in two minds - on the one hand there will still be plenty to explore and that includes crafted and generated material. On the other, things like boundaries, loading screens and invisible walls will add a certain level of tackiness and restrictions which could greatly impact immersion. Bethesda have pretty much said you can land and go anywhere on any planet so if there is a hint that you can only land in zones which are then further limited to a closed off boundary then that will be another atrocious lie by them and quite a bad one too. Thankfully those that have paid £25 more will get to play the game a week early so lots will be uncovered and reviews will also be in by then but I seriously hope this isn't an instance of cracks showing. 

[TurboR56Mini 967]

Do you really care to walk around a planet? Seems ridiculous to judge a game based on something the developers never actually said. It has been confirmed that you can land anywhere with drop pins or something like that. I'm of opinion that you can't make someone happy no matter what if they get pissy about not spending years of real life walking around a planet in a video game. Those type of people just want to see the world burn.

[J4MES OX4D 10,036]

10 hours ago, TurboR56Mini said:

Do you really care to walk around a planet? Seems ridiculous to judge a game based on something the developers never actually said. It has been confirmed that you can land anywhere with drop pins or something like that. I'm of opinion that you can't make someone happy no matter what if they get pissy about not spending years of real life walking around a planet in a video game. Those type of people just want to see the world burn.

I definitely agree - I'd also much prefer to walk around a crafted planet with purpose than some barren wasteland generated by algorithms like in No Mans Sky.  I think a lot of people who have genuine concerns are just a bit worried that the game isn't going to be as open or seamless as originally promoted especially with Todd Howard and Bethesda's track record. 

[TurboR56Mini 967]

It's a Bethesda game, using that knowledge, it seems like it's much better than typical for them. I'm also one of those gamers that got platinum on NMS in the first year when everyone was bitching and moaning, I also played Fall Out 76 when everyone was complaining, and others. Not being satisfied is based on your own expectations. Folks with untenable expectations will never be happy playing anything. I'm stoked for sure, delaying the game was the right move.

[phil bottle 9,763]

5 hours ago, TurboR56Mini said:

It's a Bethesda game, using that knowledge, it seems like it's much better than typical for them. I'm also one of those gamers that got platinum on NMS in the first year when everyone was bitching and moaning, I also played Fall Out 76 when everyone was complaining, and others. Not being satisfied is based on your own expectations. Folks with untenable expectations will never be happy playing anything. I'm stoked for sure, delaying the game was the right move.

 

Ha ha indeed, some people do seem to look to be disappointed, although the reaction to NMS meant I was able to buy it for £5 😁

[GazzaGarratt 11,053]

On 8/29/2023 at 9:50 PM, phil bottle said:

Ha ha indeed, some people do seem to look to be disappointed, although the reaction to NMS meant I was able to buy it for £5 😁

 

Exactly what I did! Ha! 😄

 

I'm trying to look into how my gaming pattern will take me in the next few months as I want this to be a part of it. I'd love to see news about different elements of the game as people start to play it as I hope it can match that social Destiny vibe because more games should have that feeling.

[J4MES OX4D 10,036]

Reviews are slowly drifting in and it's not looking too good from the big boys. 75% on PC Gamer and a 7/10 from IGN and Gamespot so far. These are perfectly good scores however this game was supposed to be the masterpiece across the board that justified Microsoft's acquisition of Bethesda and it being the huge console seller to bring Xbox closer to Playstation. Early indications suggest this isn't gonna be it although review scores are largely subjective and should be taken with a pinch of salt. Regardless, I expected a bit of a better media reception. 

[TurboR56Mini 967]

4 hours ago, J4MES OX4D said:

Reviews are slowly drifting in and it's not looking too good from the big boys. 75% on PC Gamer and a 7/10 from IGN and Gamespot so far. These are perfectly good scores however this game was supposed to be the masterpiece across the board that justified Microsoft's acquisition of Bethesda and it being the huge console seller to bring Xbox closer to Playstation. Early indications suggest this isn't gonna be it although review scores are largely subjective and should be taken with a pinch of salt. Regardless, I expected a bit of a better media reception. 

It's silly to think this will sell more Xbox consoles to me as it's not "exclusive" since it's available on PC. Unfortunately we don't understand what words mean these days. When it's PS exclusive, it really is! Like GranTurismo. You cannot play it on any other platforms. I'll be playing Starfield on PC because fuck Xbox. To me, 10/10 I would spend the money on a PC and play whatever I want vs buy a new gaming system. As long as Xbox is tethered to PC, it will never be exclusive or match PS. 

[LordBaguette 841]

Start of the video gives a good overview of what to expect, basically not as amazing as the hype, but solid