Destiny 2 - Year 2 and Season Pass

[GazzaGarratt 11,056]

The clear thing here is you have to feel like you're invested in Destiny and enjoy where the game is headed. I have absolutely zero problems in spending money because the value I am getting out of the game purely from hours putting in is enough to spend £30 now for the next 365 days. There isn't anything else that is coming out apart from Anthem which I'll try (but looks like a poor man's Destiny) that I need to save my money for.

We've all known their business model and you shouldn't buy a Destiny game ever again if you think that model doesn't work for you. However, I think the main problem people are having (general Destiny people, not just ourselves) is that you pay now and You haven't got £30 worth of content straight off the bat.

I know though people find that very difficult sometimes to think like that as you mostly expect to know what you're getting when you hand money over. There has always been an element of trust involved with Destiny purchases, and they are feeling the impact of a horrible D2 launch (after the initial first week).

[Plumbers Crack 4,062]

3 minutes ago, GazzaGarratt said:

However, I think the main problem people are having (general Destiny people, not just ourselves) is that you pay now and You haven't got £30 worth of content straight off the bat.

 

This. If you consider it’s a tenner a shot x 3 mini DLC then I’m well happy with that

 

Unfortunately, the days of CoD with buy the game then purchase the DLC for additional maps and that was it are now gone forever. I think Bungie have probably got the balance right now and they seem better than some of the horror stories we’ve been reading, such as RDR2

[Diddums 4,346]

Here are my thoughts on the matter:

 

My thoughts on D1 are clear, it started off shit with a shit story and the studio couldn't get their act together so we ended up with a butchered mess which over time and many payments, they managed to mould in to a bit of a decent game. We all enjoyed it, it brought the community together and it was probably the highest FG has ever been in terms of co-operation and parties. 

 

Then D2 came out and we naturally all started comparing it to D1 at the end of its life. We admitted that D1 had two extra years of development and progress so we turned a blind eye to the sub-par game we were fed because... you know... Bungie will fix it. The game was a complete mess, but we all tolerated it because we remembered the days when we all played D1 together and that's what we wanted. Yes, we were enjoying it but there was a constant underlying feeling that I was playing a shit game, and only playing it because of the company rather than the quality of the game. Then they started putting out DLCs, and we paid. Then we paid more. Then we paid more. And now we're expected to pay again. On top of this there's Eververse which is yet another cash grab. I wouldn't be surprised if Bungie announced a subscription model at some point. 

 

The game itself isn't bad. I enjoy playing it because it's easy, it runs fairly well, it brings the people I enjoy playing with together, but let's not kid ourselves: Compared to some other titles, it's a load of shit. The amount of content on release was fuck all, and they've drip fed us more stuff over time and each time we're expected to pay for it. Fine, yet again I turn a blind eye and pay because I enjoy playing with you lot but there's still that constant, unshakable underlying feeling that I'm giving money to people who don't care about the happiness and satisfaction of their customer base. All they want is money and will do the absolute bare minimum to get it. If that means recycling content? Fine. Same guns as we had in D1? Fine. Same enemies? Fine. Same missions? Fine. They have the audacity to brag about new content all the time when in reality I'd say at least 80% of it is a copy and paste job.

 

I used to write games when I was a wee lad, granted they were more like Snake than Destiny but during that phase I learned a hell of a lot about what goes on behind the scenes. When you start paying attention to the behaviour of bad guys and notice that many of them share the same traits, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that they're simply copy and paste jobs with different skins stuck on them. Maybe tweak a bit here, increase the jump a bit there, in the hope that nobody notices but the fact of the matter is that I do notice, and I notice it a lot. 

 

The weapons we're all supposed to be so excited about are all copy and paste jobs. The enemies we're supposed to kill are all copy and paste jobs. The missions we do are all the same ones over and over. Bungie figured out that people don't mind grinding so they're milking it, and they're doing a bloody good job. So we're using the same weapons we've been using for 4 years to kill the same enemies we've been killing for 4 years in the same missions we've been doing for 2 years. Sure, they'll add a few multipliers or whatever to make it trickier, or if they're feeling particularly adventurous maybe they'll flip the mission on its head so we do it back to front. Ground breaking stuff.

 

Apart from end game content, their answer to everything is "more bad guys". Every mission. More bad guys. Not "aha, suddenly something new appears for free as a nice gesture towards the community that have spent literally billions on this game" - nope, copy and paste more bad guys. But if you kill them you get a shader. Or a gun you paid for 4 years ago.

 

And that's the thing with Destiny for me and the reason i don't care for it any more. I was in denial for ages telling myself it was a decent game but the constant laziness behind the scenes just got too much for me. The fact that Bungie has the balls to charge people for content that is so sloppily and lazily put together is testament to how stupid and blind us gamers have become, and having now been reminded of what quality game development looks like and how much content you can get for your money thanks to RDR2, I won't be spending another penny on Destiny. They've milked me enough for the absolute minimum effort and content and I'm done with it. 

 

I'll still be on for Banana or whatever but I'm not spending any more money on it. 

[GazzaGarratt 11,056]

Here are my thoughts on the matter:
 
My thoughts on D1 are clear, it started off shit with a shit story and the studio couldn't get their act together so we ended up with a butchered mess which over time and many payments, they managed to mould in to a bit of a decent game. We all enjoyed it, it brought the community together and it was probably the highest FG has ever been in terms of co-operation and parties. 
 
Then D2 came out and we naturally all started comparing it to D1 at the end of its life. We admitted that D1 had two extra years of development and progress so we turned a blind eye to the sub-par game we were fed because... you know... Bungie will fix it. The game was a complete mess, but we all tolerated it because we remembered the days when we all played D1 together and that's what we wanted. Yes, we were enjoying it but there was a constant underlying feeling that I was playing a shit game, and only playing it because of the company rather than the quality of the game. Then they started putting out DLCs, and we paid. Then we paid more. Then we paid more. And now we're expected to pay again. On top of this there's Eververse which is yet another cash grab. I wouldn't be surprised if Bungie announced a subscription model at some point. 
 
The game itself isn't bad. I enjoy playing it because it's easy, it runs fairly well, it brings the people I enjoy playing with together, but let's not kid ourselves: Compared to some other titles, it's a load of shit. The amount of content on release was fuck all, and they've drip fed us more stuff over time and each time we're expected to pay for it. Fine, yet again I turn a blind eye and pay because I enjoy playing with you lot but there's still that constant, unshakable underlying feeling that I'm giving money to people who don't care about the happiness and satisfaction of their customer base. All they want is money and will do the absolute bare minimum to get it. If that means recycling content? Fine. Same guns as we had in D1? Fine. Same enemies? Fine. Same missions? Fine. They have the audacity to brag about new content all the time when in reality I'd say at least 80% of it is a copy and paste job.
 
I used to write games when I was a wee lad, granted they were more like Snake than Destiny but during that phase I learned a hell of a lot about what goes on behind the scenes. When you start paying attention to the behaviour of bad guys and notice that many of them share the same traits, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that they're simply copy and paste jobs with different skins stuck on them. Maybe tweak a bit here, increase the jump a bit there, in the hope that nobody notices but the fact of the matter is that I do notice, and I notice it a lot. 
 
The weapons we're all supposed to be so excited about are all copy and paste jobs. The enemies we're supposed to kill are all copy and paste jobs. The missions we do are all the same ones over and over. Bungie figured out that people don't mind grinding so they're milking it, and they're doing a bloody good job. So we're using the same weapons we've been using for 4 years to kill the same enemies we've been killing for 4 years in the same missions we've been doing for 2 years. Sure, they'll add a few multipliers or whatever to make it trickier, or if they're feeling particularly adventurous maybe they'll flip the mission on its head so we do it back to front. Ground breaking stuff.
 
Apart from end game content, their answer to everything is "more bad guys". Every mission. More bad guys. Not "aha, suddenly something new appears for free as a nice gesture towards the community that have spent literally billions on this game" - nope, copy and paste more bad guys. But if you kill them you get a shader. Or a gun you paid for 4 years ago.
 
And that's the thing with Destiny for me and the reason i don't care for it any more. I was in denial for ages telling myself it was a decent game but the constant laziness behind the scenes just got too much for me. The fact that Bungie has the balls to charge people for content that is so sloppily and lazily put together is testament to how stupid and blind us gamers have become, and having now been reminded of what quality game development looks like and how much content you can get for your money thanks to RDR2, I won't be spending another penny on Destiny. They've milked me enough for the absolute minimum effort and content and I'm done with it. 
 
I'll still be on for Banana or whatever but I'm not spending any more money on it. 

Why I love you is because you explain why you don't like something. Regardless if I agree or not, I'll always read it.

How I look at your response in it's totality is that some things you are quite correct, some things I fundamentally agree with but the crooks of what you say is on point but fundamental parts of ANY game.

When a game gets a sequel, it's because people love the first game. You don't all of a sudden go and build a completely different game for a sequel. Otherwise people are unlikely to buy the game if they can't relate to gameplay and recognisable things. Guns in a game are the same where you go. They all shoot bullets. All have fire rates. All have impact stats. When a game starts to grate on people they revert back to things like 'oh it's just a reskin'.

Creating variants of weapons or, more specifically, more unique perks because that's what we're talking about here, otherwise I'll call put any gun game and say "How many Assault Rifles look the same and shoot pretty much the same".

The above sums up every other element too. Every game has underlying mechanics as its what I look at when I want an openworld game.

The enemies in any game will work off an engine that all are connected to. They have 5 races. Within each is variant styles, at least 5 in each. That's 25 different variants of enemies. Not including boss mechanics. I do understand people want more enemies and I think they are listening to that even though that does deviate away from the Story. It's pretty much given imo we'll get a completely new race in Season 7 which are frames.

I actually disagree with the Story missions and content being samey completely. Underlying ANY mission in ANY game it has a spine.

Start mission
Do something. Go somewhere. Kill stuff.
Complete Mission.

What does Red Dead have for the something? Find something. Kill something. Find and kill something fast or slow. It's what all games have. No missions have been replicated because it's about the setting and story which is different.

We take for granted that game development is easy and quick. It isn't.

I do agree with the money aspect in the past, I think their model was too heavy on constant spending to keep up with the games power level. That's why them moving towards a business model with a season pass is the right move. One payment for the year. Done. Also, underrated move of the Year was to allow power progression to move with the base player. You don't have to spend money and still play. You get the free update, the Dawning, that is coming which has some cool stuff. That type of thing happens every other month. For 12 months. So imo, they are doing far more for the player base now.

I could go on but what we sometimes need to appreciate is the finer things in gaming. Does it feel good to play? Do I have fun? Does it give me cool stuff to use? For me, it does. It's not the best it can be still. For sure. But right now, no other game has the characteristics of this game, on a console. (Don't start on Warframe, it isn't comparable for me as it has a different model). It's the world that I love the most as nothing else looks like it.


Last example I'll give is public events were amazingly developed in a live environment and still offer great variety and fun but easily dismissed as nothing. There's over 13 different variations of a public event. And then you can make each heroic in a different way, so really 26 different variations. Personally, I'd rather be doing these types of things, with friends, rather than having a shave, on my own.

[crispymorgan 1,056]

but a heroic event you can complete on your own is neither herioc or an event.  Scale 'em up, add more stuff, add a twist.

[GazzaGarratt 11,056]

3 hours ago, crispymorgan said:

but a heroic event you can complete on your own is neither herioc or an event.  Scale 'em up, add more stuff, add a twist.

Genuinely, mean this. What twist would you want to see? Working out all the public events was pretty cool for me and for a long time not soloable. That's good content imo.

 

Don't get me wrong, they ain't perfect and if there was other games that could rival that variation of challenges I'll give it a go. Even I can admit they are lucky that there isn't many games that are just like Destiny. Being shit and taking some time to fix it has worked because other games haven't capitalised on this space. Now it's on the right path, for me its a 'why go away' moment if there's nothing better MP wise.

[NCA-Paendrag 2,758]

52 minutes ago, GazzaGarratt said:

for me its a 'why go away' moment if there's nothing better MP wise.

This. 

And lack of other games that interest me. 

[Baabcat 1,646]

I get Diddums POV on this , does seem every week new tales of corporate greed on AAA games pop up and it’s easy to feel fleeced. 

 

Hiwever i I am in for the annual pass, didn’t even really consider  it. D2 and CoO were a disgrace but I do think Bungie have got their shit together from then on and the games in a pretty good state. Certainly I find loads to do, and love the chase for new weapons and doing the new end game. £30 for 9 months of fresh (ish) stuff to do is a no brainer

[techno 3,511]

I read @Diddums post and I get it, the annual pass for me is no money that's not bragging I spend way more on coffee a week so it is value for money however that's because I also haven't bought games I'd usually be investing time in..(cod/bfv) however other than grinding light in pretty much over the pve, last raid I completed was kings fall, in playing pvp mostly now I actually enjoy the PvP challenge seeing how I stack against others, sometimes I will grind some pve for a weapon but fine are the days I go through all milestones,I barely bothered with dreaming city and use tangled shore for materials only.