Datto on d2 endgame

[techno 3,476]

Stuff you'd never hear from more console

 

 

[GazzaGarratt 10,887]

Glad you posted this as I was going to. Can't deny that whilst I love this game for the fact you can play with so many people as we all generally like this game, the endgame activities currently are concerning me bugstyle.

 

I keep on thinking its alright, mainly because I have feel I'm in that top 2% of people that are playing this game regularly (well, not really as I haven't beat Calus yet )

 

Bob put it perfectly the other day when mentioning Strikes have zero point to them. I'll play them for 'fun' but the D1 grind, whilst slow, made these types of things relevant.

 

If Datto is correct I'm not too far away from 305. For me, its just lacking a sense of clear goals and objectives for you to work towards.

 

With all of the stuff he mentions that isn't here, I think it has been replaced with Clan objectives as the key goals. It makes you think about everyone elses objectives and activities to complete for them and not just yourself.

 

My thoughts are the stuff he mentions, which was vanilla in Destiny, will be regularly rolled out so that we get that feel of valuable content being released, whereas most people's views will be they should've had it from launch.

[Sennex 1,903]

SC_Slayerage posted this:

 

Quote

Datto's opinions are largely in line with mine on this topic, which is a letdown. I would like to think that the hardcore players - those that keep the Reddit / YouTube / Bungie Forums / Twitch streams lively by viewing, commenting, and creating, are considered an integral part of the community. When, after finishing the campaign, the first thing to show up on my screen was a big "Thank you!" from Bungie to their community as a whole, I felt like it was a direct "thank you" to me for being so involved and invested in the game as it progressed. It was heartwarming! I'm sure many of us here on reddit felt the same - like just by caring, you contributed.

 

But at the same time, the direction of all of the endgame changes (or rather, the elimination of endgame activities in their entirety) suggests very strongly that hardcore players are the opposite of integral to the community. It suggests that they are, as far as I can tell, expendable. I sincerely believe that Bungie is appreciative of the community as a whole, hardcore players included - every bit of information we get suggests they are very passionate about their game and those who play it - but the entirety of the game's design direction now screams "go play an MMO if you want an MMO." As a hardcore player, that is the absolute last message I want to be receiving from the game I enjoy and care about so much.

I do have one qualm with Datto's video - I'm not sure that the goal here is solely to snuff out elitism. My interpretation of the endgame being gone is not that it is directed at shooing away elitists, but at making casual players less like they are competing on an uneven playing field. They want the game to feel "beatable," I think. Lost sectors gray out after one completion, region chests go away after being opened once, adventures are one and done, story missions can't be replayed - all of this says to me that the game is supposed to be a space Skyrim with guns (minus the depth of story available in the base gameplay, unfortunately). I can't really identify with the audience targeted, so I can't say if it works.

 

Still, that makes it really unclear why the raid even exists. Datto says "they've got us," (and they do), but is it really worth putting that much time in development to string along 2% of players?

 

Maybe.

 

I can't deny that the endgame was deliberately removed from the game. For whatever reason, they do not want an endgame. I do not like that or agree with it, but there are too many clear signals for it to be anything other than purposeful. But then, why do they even keep the rest of the MMO esque systems afloat? Is random loot drops (not rolls) even a good thing in that design scheme? Is an always online world a significant improvement to a largely single player experience? Are factions going to be something we care about at all? Does our loot matter when by and far everyone has access to the same arsenal? (that one is killer IMO, the excitement for new loot was a big casualty in this new design scheme where everyone wins). Seems like with an emphasis on loot, even in their trailer, they must be aware it feels way less cool even for a non hardcore player.

 

I mean in all honesty, it's almost weird they'd even bother to make guided games for raids. I can't imagine the search times for those will be anything other than abysmal after a month of guided game's release. The new raid is so communication heavy that it will be tough helping a new player through. Getting the time commitment from 5 clan-players who, critically, now have no skin in the game since raid loot isn't a big deal (there's not a single raid weapon that you can't get a better variant of elsewhere) seems pretty unlikely. While helping people is nice, and I'm sure many solo players hitting 280 will want to raid, the amount of clans that will want to guide those games is going to be, like I said, abysmal. Why would someone want to play with 5 clanmates (friends!) and a new guy when you could play with 6 clanmates (friends!!)? Lots of people have clan "raid nights" for their six friends, who's getting kicked for a new guy? Why risk earning yourself a bad reputation because the time commitment for a raid is hours, and more importantly, how many groups of 5 even have the skills (raid knowledge) and free time to offer that anyway? Tons of people struggle to find time to raid as is, let alone making the commitment to be there for as long as it takes for a guy you don't know. Why would anyone get a ticket for a ride on the struggle bus when it actively hurts their own chances of getting anything out of the experience?

 

I feel pretty confident those feeders will die very quickly, but I could be wrong to even share my thoughts on that one... especially because the entire point I'm trying to arrive at isn't that guided games are a bad idea (they're a great idea), the point I'm trying to get at here is that hardcore players are the people Bungie should be trying to hold onto so we can share the experience with less experienced players. You can't make an endgameless game, and then expect the disenfranchised hardcore players to stick around and want to help new players when it actively conflicts with their own interests. I could be crazy to think most hardcore players will quit, but the major question I'm positing here is: why wouldn't they?

Anyway, all food for thought. I sure hope that players like me are not hung out to dry as far as the game experience is concerned. Destiny is at a more epic scale than ever before, and the graphics are much better, and the open world felt great while I had a good reason to be there. Injecting a good reason to keep playing should be an easy thing for them to change for us, if they want to - I sure hope they do.

 

Also if you read all this, you're the man.

 

[Sennex 1,903]

//Random Thoughts

For me, the world/ game feels shallow.

 

I recognize that I am in a weird spot in the game. My playtime never coincides with anyone else really, and thats fine. I pretty much am the most casual player there is (aside from my son), and I think a few things need to be done to help increase my playtime on Bungies side.

 

T-Bone hit it on the head the other day when he said we needed bounties again. For me, that would help. I get that milestones and shit replaced Bounties, but I think something like it would help make the world feel even more active. (Yes there is plenty to do, I think adding more to do would jsut be a shade more awesome)

 

I think the token system is nice, but it was left a little flat. 30 tokens for a full bar seems silly for some of the activities. Specifically the Zavala strike tokens. I am honest enough to say that I have no idea what the number for them should be. The others are fine. I can get EDZ tokens and Gunsmith materials all day

 

Public events.... Kinda burnt out on always soloing them. I think there should be some sort of penalty for players who "rally" for the free super, ammo, abilites, and then leave. 

 

Not being able to mulch gear into differing types was really dumb. 

 

//end of random thoughts

[GazzaGarratt 10,887]

The more I read these opinions, the more i'm convinced that they have purposely removed it to give it us back in free patches and then DLC. It would make total sense as you wouldn't leave a game like it is now for too long.

 

I feel a little like you Bart but clearly I'm also lucky I'm online when most are about so I get to feel like I can help others which is what I enjoy.

 

Im not of the opinion Bounties work though, they were annoying as hell going to the Tower, picking them up and then randomly doing them, just like we do with the challenges but at least they've removed the annoying flight back and forth to the Tower.

 

The biggest section for me that I'd love back asap is the progress tab - the books full of objectives to complete and the full quest details picked up. This space could then expand to show the lore. We need focus and something really big to work towards.

[Baabcat 1,642]

Yes the loss of grimoire is another strange thing that is limiting the stuff to do factor 

[Sennex 1,903]

We had a Grimoire? 

Oh you mean that website that wasn't in the game at all that explained the lore!

 

 

[Baabcat 1,642]

33 minutes ago, Sennex said:

We had a Grimoire? 

Oh you mean that website that wasn't in the game at all that explained the lore!

 

 

Yep that. Personally never read any of it, but the fact we had a grimoire score gave me stuff to do , think I finished D1 in the top 1 or 2 % for grimoire score. , which more than makes up for my crappy KDR

[techno 3,476]

I'd like to see bounties again, I need some reason to log on when solo, I used to fill the gap with crucible, could play that shit for hours but so far I've played 4 games for the milestone's there is no draw to crucible from 4v4 to awful gamemodes im forced to play I'd never look at. Seems they removed the good stuff to improve on the bad even removing random rolls kills the grind, I don't even check perks as I think there pretty pointless if everyone's gun is the same.
I even think I'm going to find the raid more annoying than fun, yet only a couple of months ago we had a laugh running the 2 oldest raids.

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