SPOILERS - Discussion - Falcon & Winter Soldier

[RenFengge 1,042]

We had a nice thread going for WandaVision.

 

Thought maybe let's start on the next one? Falcon & Winter Soldier

 

No spoiler yet.. but I'll leave this here regarding the ending of Episode 1

 

[Greboth 2,721]

I think most people know who it is at the end....clearly it's Mephisto 😆

 

While it's Marvel so I had faith in it, the trailer did make it look a bit generic action so the first episode surprised me.  Without saying too much, it was good to see Bucky on a redemption arc and you've got to give him credit for his method of apologising for his actions as the Winter Soldier.  It's also good to see more detail on how the blip effected normal people and the wider world through Falcon's interaction with his sister.

 

A solid opening episode and I'm looking forward to the next.

[LordBaguette 846]

Haha I don't think I'll do full in depth episode reviews like Wanda, but I will put a few thoughts per episode, and will do a full review when it finishes

 

 

SPOILERS BELOW !!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I actually thought the episode was much more somber and darker than I expected and the trailers portrayed it to be, which is a good thing. The character building was great for both the leads, this was much needed for them both. The part with the Asian guys son was very dark and well done. Action looked amazing as well, film quality. The new cap or USAgent will be interesting to see where he fits into the story. I feel like it will go one of 2 ways: They will either establish him with powers, and give him a episode almost dedicated to him and will be an integral part of what happens going forward, or he will just be a government actor or 'stooge' that doesn't have a huge role to play except a plot device (similar to The Mandarin in Iron Man 3). I would prefer the first option, as it would be cool to explore his comic book origins, as he isn't really a villain, more of a Punisher type antihero character

 

But if we get solid character building episode, with fantastic action scenes in between I will be happy. That and I hope they bring Zemo in and he's amazing again like Civil War. I want him to be the main villain pulling all the strings and hope he's in it more than the trailers make out

 

The only dumb part was Falcon having no money. I like that they were trying to make him a more 'every day' character to relate to, but I find it hard to believe that Stark didn't set up kind of Avengers fund. Or even if he didn't, surely he could contact Pepper Potts and say 'Hey, it's me, y'know Falcon the Avenger and one of the guys that helped save the universe, give me some money please?" since she is the head of Stark Industries and a billionaire. Plus he was a high ranking military officer and was probably paid well. Anyway I digress

 

 

[Misneach_ 299]

All I can say as of now is that I love all the MCU conentbas of recent. There are always things to criticize (I can’t believe how much traction the whole paying the Avengers thing got) but it’s something entertaining to watch and they always put a lot into the thought of plot lines and production. I was stoked that it was a bit more action packed as I expected. I specifically like the bot how Bucky has to go through a step program and make reconciliation with those of this past. This should turn out well.

[Misneach_ 299]

Funny enough I saw a comment from an attorney on the fact that if stark did “pay” the avengers Stark industries could have been in the hook for all sorts of law suits or every time an even get destroyed something.

[LordBaguette 846]

8 minutes ago, Misneach_ said:

Funny enough I saw a comment from an attorney on the fact that if stark did “pay” the avengers Stark industries could have been in the hook for all sorts of law suits or every time an even get destroyed something.

I guess So but Surely there would be loopholes around this though, including using his personal money and not company money 

[LordBaguette 846]

EPISODE 2 SPOILERS BELOW

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Another great episode, and it also did not go the way I expected. The fight scene where John Walker intervenes I didn't expect to happen so soon. They also did a good job of giving some character in a short space of time at the start. I think he might be being set up as quite tragic character, either through death towards the end or becoming a full fledged villain towards the end or after the show. They also had his sidekick Battlestar as well.

 

We got Sam and Bucky back together, I thought that was a little rushed to be honest but, at least it keeps things moving. More of the flag smashers and what they are up to. I think it looks like they stole the serum and maybe something else from the government and they are trying to get it back. I think they may not end up being the villains by the end of the show.

 

The scene of them going to visit Isaiah Bradley was very well done and quite emotional. Basically he was another government version of Captain America the government used but then swept under the rug because of his race. I think this will play into the reasons why Sam doesn't want to take the shield. You see glimpses already in the show of the racism issue in the US, with the bank loan and the cops in episode 2. I think it will culminate in him saying to Bucky or someone about the treatment of black people in the US, and him not wanting to represent America when America itself treats you differently and oppresses you. It kind of mirrors all the racist shit he got after Endgame. It's very good meta commentary writing. As much as I hate any kind of politics in things like this, this is very much justified.

 

Best line in the episode was from Bucky: "...because If Steve was wrong about giving you that shield then that means he was wrong about ME". More or less, Cap's entire story arc was about saving Bucky. First from hydra, then from the Avengers whom signed the accords. That is an incredible weight resting on Bucky's shoulders now.

 

Also at the end the cliffhanger of going to see Zemo. I am still wondering how he will fit into all this, could be very interesting, maybe he was always pulling the strings for all of this just to get broken out? will Sam and Bucky break him out?

[RenFengge 1,042]

We watched the episode last night.

 

I'm really trying to be okay with US Agent/John Walker... but there's just something about the "mantle" being easily passed to him that doesn't sit right. And, that's the point, right? We're supposed to immediately dislike him because we don't know his story, and it seems like it was handed to him on a silver platter. Is this going to be a Jean Grey/Madeline Pryor thing?

 

Now, I had to refresh my memory a bit on US Agent (I was more X-Men than Captain America/Avengers), but he (from a writer's perspective) wasn't created to happily mesh with everyone. He was supposed to sort of be an antagonist in his own complicated way. That's a story worth telling. I'm curious to see if his role will extend beyond Falcon & Winter Soldier. What character arc will we get with him? Are we going to have various sets of Avengers like how we ended up with two different X-Men teams.. then other teams like X-Force...

 

The racism aspect is going to be a thread in this story. You can't not touch it with Sam. You can't not discuss it blatantly with today's climate and the history of Marvel and Stan Lee. And, maybe it's my old age, but I do find myself getting more emotional about this when such topics are not sugar-coated, as Marvel generally discusses bigotry but not blatantly. It's why there's X-Men and such.

 

Bucky's line, his truth in why he's hurt about Falcon's actions, that was top notch. It's true. It makes sense. It shows how people's own perceptions about themselves are tied to others, no matter how strong or independent they seem. I find it interesting when people say that Marvel writing is lazy. Because, it's not. It takes a level of empathy and understanding to go for something more than good vs. bad... and that sometimes our biggest villains are our own issues we need to work on. Civil War was about doubt within a team and how it did fracture them completely. This phase of Marvel seems to be about processing grief in our own way... and how do we deal with the aftermath of our actions.

 

Zemo... hah.. oh Zemo... again, consequences of our actions. Are they going to tie this into the next Black Panther? T'Challa left him alive when he didn't need to. But, again, Zemo was dealing with grief in his own way.

 

I hope Sam and Bucky don't lose their way completely and break him out... but if they need to, I hope they don't lose him by doing something absolutely stupid.

[LordBaguette 846]

I think it all goes back to how the government and corporations viewed Captain America back in the 40s before he got a chance on the actual battlefield. He was used has a pawn, for commercialism and government profit. This is the John Walker version right now. Not a 'good man' but a 'good soldier' (just as if Tommy Lee Jones's character from Cpt America 1 picked candidate, instead of Doctor Erskine). I am convinced that further down the line the will get the serum, which will amplify these traits as it did with Steve, but will go down the more ruthless soldier route, as opposed to the good man route. He will then become the true USAgent from the comics.

 

I think it'll hard to know what they will do with him after the show. They are definitely building towards a villain team, but I am not sure if he ever was a true villain in the comics? More of just an antihero type but I may be wrong. If so he could fit into that team. Let's hope he's not just dead at the end of the show at least. I can't see Zemo dying anytime soon, I would assume he will become one of the leaders of the new villain teams, whatever they end up calling it (probably the Thunderbolts). I do have a feeling they will end up breaking him out, although maybe inadvertently. His motives will be interesting considering he will not want to help Bucky and Sam, but will also not want a load of super soldiers running around, unless his motives have changed completely. He could have not been snapped, and been around for 5 years doing who knows what.

 

I think you will be right about more than 1 team of heroes. They are obviously going to have the main team New Avengers. It looks like they are also building a Young Avengers team and also quite possibly a West Coast Avengers as well. And also all the mystical, magical stuff with also be separate for the most part since they are going off the rails in terms of power levels for that stuff.

 

It really does get on my nerves when people say it is badly written. The people that say that just do not understand film correctly, or just want 'smashy smashy lasers explosions' instead of actual emotion and dialogue between characters. One of my favourite scenes in terms of acting and dialogue is in Civil War. The scene between Cap and Stark discussing the accords in the office and slowly escalating the disagreement. Its done so amazingly well. You are correct about grief, all the projects have had this theme post endgame so far, including Far From Home, Wanda and Falcon.

 

 

 

[LordBaguette 846]

19 hours ago, RenFengge said:

We watched the episode last night.

 

I'm really trying to be okay with US Agent/John Walker... but there's just something about the "mantle" being easily passed to him that doesn't sit right. And, that's the point, right? We're supposed to immediately dislike him because we don't know his story, and it seems like it was handed to him on a silver platter. Is this going to be a Jean Grey/Madeline Pryor thing?

 

Now, I had to refresh my memory a bit on US Agent (I was more X-Men than Captain America/Avengers), but he (from a writer's perspective) wasn't created to happily mesh with everyone. He was supposed to sort of be an antagonist in his own complicated way. That's a story worth telling. I'm curious to see if his role will extend beyond Falcon & Winter Soldier. What character arc will we get with him? Are we going to have various sets of Avengers like how we ended up with two different X-Men teams.. then other teams like X-Force...

 

The racism aspect is going to be a thread in this story. You can't not touch it with Sam. You can't not discuss it blatantly with today's climate and the history of Marvel and Stan Lee. And, maybe it's my old age, but I do find myself getting more emotional about this when such topics are not sugar-coated, as Marvel generally discusses bigotry but not blatantly. It's why there's X-Men and such.

 

Bucky's line, his truth in why he's hurt about Falcon's actions, that was top notch. It's true. It makes sense. It shows how people's own perceptions about themselves are tied to others, no matter how strong or independent they seem. I find it interesting when people say that Marvel writing is lazy. Because, it's not. It takes a level of empathy and understanding to go for something more than good vs. bad... and that sometimes our biggest villains are our own issues we need to work on. Civil War was about doubt within a team and how it did fracture them completely. This phase of Marvel seems to be about processing grief in our own way... and how do we deal with the aftermath of our actions.

 

Zemo... hah.. oh Zemo... again, consequences of our actions. Are they going to tie this into the next Black Panther? T'Challa left him alive when he didn't need to. But, again, Zemo was dealing with grief in his own way.

 

I hope Sam and Bucky don't lose their way completely and break him out... but if they need to, I hope they don't lose him by doing something absolutely stupid.

I think it all goes back to how the government and corporations viewed Captain America back in the 40s before he got a chance on the actual battlefield. He was used has a pawn, for commercialism and government profit. This is the John Walker version right now. Not a 'good man' but a 'good soldier' (just as if Tommy Lee Jones's character from Cpt America 1 picked candidate, instead of Doctor Erskine). I am convinced that further down the line the will get the serum, which will amplify these traits as it did with Steve, but will go down the more ruthless soldier route, as opposed to the good man route. He will then become the true USAgent from the comics.

 

I think it'll hard to know what they will do with him after the show. They are definitely building towards a villain team, but I am not sure if he ever was a true villain in the comics? More of just an antihero type but I may be wrong. If so he could fit into that team. Let's hope he's not just dead at the end of the show at least. I can't see Zemo dying anytime soon, I would assume he will become one of the leaders of the new villain teams, whatever they end up calling it (probably the Thunderbolts). I do have a feeling they will end up breaking him out, although maybe inadvertently. His motives will be interesting considering he will not want to help Bucky and Sam, but will also not want a load of super soldiers running around, unless his motives have changed completely. He could have not been snapped, and been around for 5 years doing who knows what.

 

I think you will be right about more than 1 team of heroes. They are obviously going to have the main team New Avengers. It looks like they are also building a Young Avengers team and also quite possibly a West Coast Avengers as well. And also all the mystical, magical stuff with also be separate for the most part since they are going off the rails in terms of power levels for that stuff.

 

It really does get on my nerves when people say it is badly written. The people that say that just do not understand film correctly, or just want 'smashy smashy lasers explosions' instead of actual emotion and dialogue between characters. One of my favourite scenes in terms of acting and dialogue is in Civil War. The scene between Cap and Stark discussing the accords in the office and slowly escalating the disagreement. Its done so amazingly well. You are correct about grief, all the projects have had this theme post endgame so far, including Far From Home, Wanda and Falcon.

 

[RenFengge 1,042]

US Agent wasn't a straight villain in the comics. He was just this... not so welcomed "hero", which, again, from the writer's perspective, was the point. He was to be somewhat the opposite of Steve Rogers. Urban (Steve) vs. Rural (John Walker). Ethics (Steve) vs. Duties (John). Etc.

 

They butt heads when Steve comes back, but then they work together to take down Red Skull. John goes to lead the West Coast Avengers, Steve helms the originals. (Think of like how we ended up with a Cyclops X-Men team and a Wolverine X-Men team)

 

With the rumors going that MCU is figuring out ways to add in Mutants... they will need to appropriately expand the MCU beyond the original Avengers. This seems to be a first step in doing that... if they keep John Walker around.

[GazzaGarratt 11,066]

On 3/26/2021 at 3:32 PM, LordBaguette said:

I think he might be being set up as quite tragic character, either through death towards the end or becoming a full fledged villain towards the end or after the show. They also had his sidekick Battlestar as well.

 

23 hours ago, RenFengge said:

I'm really trying to be okay with US Agent/John Walker... but there's just something about the "mantle" being easily passed to him that doesn't sit right. And, that's the point, right? We're supposed to immediately dislike him because we don't know his story, and it seems like it was handed to him on a silver platter. Is this going to be a Jean Grey/Madeline Pryor thing?

 

Yeah that sums up where i'm at with him. And as much as people may want to see him have more of a story arc and/or potentially get some form of super powers too, I just can't see that right now. I don't find him warming (as expected) but usually you can notice straight away if a person will do well and i'm not sure he will alongside Falcon and Winter Soldier. Problem is we were spoilt with Chris Evans for probably too many years to feel any different.

 

That being said, another decent episode which i'm glad was longer than the first one! I'm loving the Winter Soldier little black book of names he's starting to cross off, that totally works for a little series and keeps him playing a cool dark character which suits him. They've done a good job showing how vulnerable Falcon can be from other external factors so far and I think that sets him up to be hopefully adored by the end of the season.

 

The balance of action to story seems about right too. We needed more action in this than WandaVision but good to see its not all explodey stuff everywhere because we need to learn far more about the world now as we know it in Phase 4.

[jordie1892 681]

I've got to give the new Captain America actor credit, he's great at giving off overly nice but still somehow dickish vibes. I don't think they'd actually have him take over the Captain America mantle as a straight up hero, but I'll leave it to you guys who know what they're talking about to hypothesize what his role will actually be 😂

[LordBaguette 846]

SPOILERS BELOW FOR EPISODE 3

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Definitely the weakest episode so far, I felt it was extremely rushed, they tried to cram a lot of story into a very short period, resulting in them flying in a plane from place to place you kind of got lost with what was going on at points. Also the way Zemo was written I didn't think worked very well. He didn't seem like the same man from Civil War. Too many quips and comedic moments. He felt so menacing and calculated in Civil War, that has all been lost here unfortunately. It doesn't feel like the Russo brothers or writers of Civil War were consulted at all. The only part I liked really was some of the interactions with Bucky, as well as the outfit and when he killed some of the mercenaries. 

 

Sharon Carters back too, she was okay. Again seemed like a different character although I guess things have changed for her considerably since the snap so it can make sense. Again seemed like she was shoved in there without a purpose, except to just help Falcon and Bucky and move the plot forward. 

 

Hardly any John Walker in this episode too, which is kind of jarring considering he was a focal point of the episode before. The episode just seemed off in general, kind of like it was just shoved in purely to move the story forward. It didn't feel particularly MCU. When they introduced the scientist I knew he'd be dead within 10 minutes, as you cant have a guy who can create super soldier serum around too long, or it kind of renders all the Captain America esque heroes kind of obsolete, as there would be thousands of super soldiers around. Still holding out hope Falcon will get the serum. 

 

Then they introduce the Wakandans again at the end wanting revenge for Zemo killing the king in Civil War. I assume they will try and capture him but it will go majorly wrong.

 

I am hoping things pick up in the next episode

 

 

[RenFengge 1,042]

I thought the details of the episode were interesting. Like.. throwing in Madripoor? This isn't a universe where we have even realy talked about mutants or the X-Men, and we're getting Madripoor?

 

The episode may have felt odd or slow (it wasn't to me), but I think a lot of it was a stepping stone into what characters we will see in the rest of this Phase for MCU.

 

I'm curious about Sharon Carter's role. I think there's more to it than her just making a living as an art thief. I think she's undercover... or she's just flipped sides and will be a nemesis...

[RenFengge 1,042]

Spoilers for Episode 4 Discussion

Spoiler

 

Well, I guess we're going down the road of John Walker being a villain? I mean, this sort of plays along the same lines as the comics... showing how he is completely unfit to be Captain America. However, I was astonished that Battlestar got killed so quickly. I mean. Come on. What normal human survives that? He's dead. Right? We can't have 2 black guys with broken backs.

 

Goodness.. John Walker is such a tool. 

 

Also, I loved seeing The Dora Milaje just beat the hell out of US Agent and Battlestar without even trying. Interesting to watch everyone just fight each other long enough for Zemo to slip away. Oh, and watching the scene on Bucky finally being freed from his programming while he was in Wakanda.

 

We're going down a dark path now in the series. I'm super excited to see where we go from here after the whole world has witnessed John Walker murder someone. But, since we've been playing into politics a bit, are we also going to see people defend this action because "white cop"? I'm curious.

 

 

[LordBaguette 846]

21 hours ago, RenFengge said:

Spoilers for Episode 4 Discussion

  Hide contents

 

Well, I guess we're going down the road of John Walker being a villain? I mean, this sort of plays along the same lines as the comics... showing how he is completely unfit to be Captain America. However, I was astonished that Battlestar got killed so quickly. I mean. Come on. What normal human survives that? He's dead. Right? We can't have 2 black guys with broken backs.

 

Goodness.. John Walker is such a tool. 

 

Also, I loved seeing The Dora Milaje just beat the hell out of US Agent and Battlestar without even trying. Interesting to watch everyone just fight each other long enough for Zemo to slip away. Oh, and watching the scene on Bucky finally being freed from his programming while he was in Wakanda.

 

We're going down a dark path now in the series. I'm super excited to see where we go from here after the whole world has witnessed John Walker murder someone. But, since we've been playing into politics a bit, are we also going to see people defend this action because "white cop"? I'm curious.

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

I thought it was the best episode by far. I love the slow degeneration of his character to him finally losing it, be interesting to see if Sam / Bucky forcefully take the shield, the government take it off him and give it to Sam, or maybe even John gives it to Sam. I think Wyatt Russells acting has been amazing so far, character you love to hate like Joffrey in GoT. I thought it was one of the darkest episodes so far, more akin to the Netflix shows. Battlestars sudden death was really well done, and I thought the character reactions all worked. The last shot of John with the bloodied shield was fantastic. Most blood ever in the MCU maybe? 

 

Special mention for the first scene. Was 8am when I watched it with my friend and we were both not mentally prepared for how good Sebastian Stans acting was. What a scene you felt his relief and pain. Also I thought Zemo was better in this episode, much more of him being an actual scheming villain and had some good interesting dialogue which in some cases you could relate to and made sense.

 

My guess is the government will not condone it, but keep him on as USAgent to do covert ops (as the gov wouldn't want to waste a super soldier), potentially giving him a black suit like Steves stealth suit, which will be the origin of his actual black suit from the comics. Then maybe by the end or in a later film or show he defects all together and goes solo. He has a shield just like cap as well in the comics I wonder if they will both have shields or not, and if so where will they get the new one? 

 

I am pretty convinced now that Falcon will not get the serum. He never gets it in the comics and I think they may go for a more 'every man' Captain America. They have shown he can hold his own against super soldiers anyway, and he's outright said he wouldn't take it. It could be a misdirect though but I cant see a scenario as to why he would take it if he doesn't want it? Unless someone forces it on him? Lots of questions

 

 

 

[LordBaguette 846]

EPISODE 6 SPOILERS 

Spoiler

 

EPISODE 6 SPOILERS

 

So we are finally at the last episode, it has come round fast. I was a little underwhelmed with the last episode to be honest. I think the main issue with the whole series is the villain and her motivations. Like, i get it, but you never really see the people she's fighting do anything to reason fighting with. A rule with TV and film is 'show don't tell' and they just didn't show enough of the GRC doing bad things to warrant what Karli was doing. I think the last couple episodes would have worked much better as a double episode, as the pacing just didn't feel right. I am very glad she died, she was definitely the weakest main character.

 

Saying that I think the new Cap suit is pretty badass. I liked the scenes with John Walker, definitely redeeming his character somewhat. The whole Sam speech was good, obviously lots of social commentary for the real world there. Obviously I am not African American but it must have meant a lot to watch that scene, and with Isaiah at the end you could feel the emotion there. Especially the part where he basically says there are always people who are going to hate him as Cap, basically talking to all the real world racists out there who will always hate him as the character.

 

His fighting his badass, definitely different and will be a hard adjustment to him being Cap. He never has the serum in the comics but will be difficult to adjust to having a Cap without it. I don't think I liked that Sharon is the power broker, just didn't seem very earned and has no comic book origins. I thought she'd end up being a Skrull but it wasn't the case. Time will tell to see what her motivations are and what she will end up doing, assuming she ends up on the S.W.O.R.D base with Fury?

 

They are definitely building a team with USAgent thats 100% confirmed now. I think Fontaine will be playing both sides the good and bad. Maybe John will get forced in with the villains but defect eventually as he is clearly not a villain, neither in the comics or MCU. Thought the final shot with Zemo killing the rest of the super soldiers was great, showing he really can pull all the strings still, and I am sure will end up leading the Thunderbolts villain team.

 

I would give the show a 8/10 I think, and I preferred it to Wanda, just because I wasn't massively theorising every week and was just happy to watch it. I think the best thing about it was the character development with Sam and Bucky, and they definitely carried it with their acting. 

 

On to Loki.

 

 

 

[RenFengge 1,042]

Well well well...

Spoiler

 

I wasn't surprised on the twist that Carter is the Power Broker. However, I'm not thrilled about it. What kind of personal arc do you need to go from the history of your family name to being... the Power Broker? I mean, in terms of well written video games, it reminds me a lot of Mass Effect 2 and seeing Liara become the Shadow Broker... 

 

Anyway, it was sort of nice seeing Walker fully take on the US Agent identity. He does play the conflicted character nicely. But, the fact that Val is giving him all this... Are we going down the Hydra path with her? I want to see the scenes between Val and Fury. I want to see what history they put there.

 

I loved Sam's speech at the end. Yes, it's a lot of social commentary, but again, Marvel always excelled at that, and anyone who never realized that before had to have been blind. There's so much history and pain to unpack to even somewhat halfway understand it. I read that Disney noticed liked of 80+% of people who turned off during one of the episodes was exactly when the whole cop scene started where they were harassing Sam. I really don't understand where crazy racists get off on thinking the Marvel world (or even the Star Wars world) is meant to only be for white people when it's always been about diversity.

 

Zemo will lead the Thunderbolts. That's for sure. But, for how long will they be villains? Will they essentially be the next Guardians in this phase? And when I say that, I mean that they are the weird outcasts who eventually become beloved heroes.

 

Super stoked to see that there will be a Season 2 of this show. It will be a nice interlude between movies now that we no longer have Agents of SHIELD. Feige can do it right.

 

Now, waiting for Loki will take patience. I kind of liked how they lined up Falcon to almost immediately follow WandaVision.

 

We're in the beginning of Phase 4... and it's super exciting to watch it unfold.

 

 

[LordBaguette 846]

7 hours ago, RenFengge said:

Well well well...

  Hide contents

 

I wasn't surprised on the twist that Carter is the Power Broker. However, I'm not thrilled about it. What kind of personal arc do you need to go from the history of your family name to being... the Power Broker? I mean, in terms of well written video games, it reminds me a lot of Mass Effect 2 and seeing Liara become the Shadow Broker... 

 

Anyway, it was sort of nice seeing Walker fully take on the US Agent identity. He does play the conflicted character nicely. But, the fact that Val is giving him all this... Are we going down the Hydra path with her? I want to see the scenes between Val and Fury. I want to see what history they put there.

 

I loved Sam's speech at the end. Yes, it's a lot of social commentary, but again, Marvel always excelled at that, and anyone who never realized that before had to have been blind. There's so much history and pain to unpack to even somewhat halfway understand it. I read that Disney noticed liked of 80+% of people who turned off during one of the episodes was exactly when the whole cop scene started where they were harassing Sam. I really don't understand where crazy racists get off on thinking the Marvel world (or even the Star Wars world) is meant to only be for white people when it's always been about diversity.

 

Zemo will lead the Thunderbolts. That's for sure. But, for how long will they be villains? Will they essentially be the next Guardians in this phase? And when I say that, I mean that they are the weird outcasts who eventually become beloved heroes.

 

Super stoked to see that there will be a Season 2 of this show. It will be a nice interlude between movies now that we no longer have Agents of SHIELD. Feige can do it right.

 

Now, waiting for Loki will take patience. I kind of liked how they lined up Falcon to almost immediately follow WandaVision.

 

We're in the beginning of Phase 4... and it's super exciting to watch it unfold.

 

 

Also side note I thought it was hilarious when Karli said "Have you ever fought for something greater than yourself?" to Bucky, a WW2, Infinity War and Endgame veteran. Not the best writing there haha

[Greboth 2,721]

23 minutes ago, LordBaguette said:

Also side note I thought it was hilarious when Karli said "Have you ever fought for something greater than yourself?" to Bucky, a WW2, Infinity War and Endgame veteran. Not the best writing there haha

 

Interesting, I took that line as further showing Karli's naivety rather than bad writing as consistently she took the simple stance of Avengers = bad rather than considering what Sam or Bucky have been through and experienced.  Though I suppose you could argue Karli being quite 1 dimensional in this respect was bad writing.

[LordBaguette 846]

12 minutes ago, Greboth said:

 

Interesting, I took that line as further showing Karli's naivety rather than bad writing as consistently she took the simple stance of Avengers = bad rather than considering what Sam or Bucky have been through and experienced.  Though I suppose you could argue Karli being quite 1 dimensional in this respect was bad writing.

I find it hard to believe she didn't know that. But even if she did I though she was the weakest part of the show. Thank god for US Agent and Zemo