Sennex 1,903 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Not sure if you guys enjoy this stuff or not, but I can post it up if so. EDIT: Forgot to add, I did NOT compile this, just resharing for you guys. The main "Take Aways" are this: Observations: A lot of stuff stood out to me, and I'm just going to write them in a list in no particular order: Hawkmoon -- In my original post, I wasn't sure if Bungie looked at only PlayStation players or both PlayStation and XBox players. From the data I pulled alone, I cannot tell, but there are two options. First, if they pulled on PS data, Hawkmoon is twice as potent as its usage would suggest. Second, if Playstation had around 10% Hawkmoon kills and overall it had 5% usage, that would seem to say Bungie pulled data from all players. Given the gun is only available on one console, this seems like shady tactic to me. It understates Hawkmoon's power and dilutes its kill numbers. Just look at the PlayStation only line in Chart #2. The Big Three -- The exotic hand cannons equated for over 56% of all primary kills. Three guns were over one-half of all primary kills. Three. Thorn -- Thorn had nearly twice the percentage of primary kills . . . as every other primary outside of the top tencombined. In a game of hundreds and hundreds of games, one gun constitutes more than twice the amount of total kills stemming from these guns. Thorn's kills were 40% higher than its usage. PlayStation users chose Thorn more than XBox users, which was slightly surprising to me (note to self: get an XB1 -- kidding, kidding). Its 35% kill rate was almost double what SUROS's percentage was in January of this year. XBox's "Hawkmoon Effect" -- Due to this rare bird not being on all consoles, Red Death and TLW figures are noticeably higher than on PlayStation consoles. Also, XBoxers used more Mythoclast, Juju, and the "other weapons" than PlayStation users. XBox easily had a more diverse weapon set than PlayStation. I figured they would just flock to Thorn, but that's not the case. Good for you XBox community. People Going Ham -- Guns like VoC, MIDA, and the "others" often got huge boosts from one guy in the game going absolutely crazy with it. Some people wound up with over 15 kills in games with these weapons. Game after game would pass with no usage of these weapons, and then one guy would dominate with it. It was really interesting to see. Messenger was the most used "other," but there were quite a few scout rifles and pulse rifles used in this category as well. Use Your Primary -- I wish I counted the number of Guardians who never registered a primary kill during a match. Needless to say, Bungie's special ammo changes did not do anything to stem the special-as-a-primary players. There were people scoring over 5,000 without a single primary weapon kill, not even the dominant ones. It was crazy to see. For confirmation, go look at Guardian.gg's overall stats -- two shotguns represent the third and fourth highest percentage of kills among all weapons. I knew people did it, but it happens a lot more than you'd think. Luke 23:34 'And Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they don't think it be like it is, but it do." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BO7H B4RRELS 2,447 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Very interesting. Thanks, Bart. Do you guys feel that Thorn needs nerfed, or should they buff other weapons? Or, is it just up to the community to use whatever they want? I'm surprised about the different between XBOX/PS4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stretch616 697 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Thorn doesn't need nerfing. They just need to look at putting other guns on the same level. Thorn is exotic and it feels that way. It's just that some other exotics are not as powerful. Which is what makes it the "go to" weapon. Personally i suck with hand cannons in PvP, so the oversoul edict is my baby. But 9/10 when i get killed it's by one of the holy trinity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techno 3,477 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Thorn really does need a nerf the range especially ( i use thorn)same as last word. Buff the auto rifles which is a no brainer. If they buffed everything the ttk would just plummet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sennex 1,903 Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 I think all current weapons should be left alone. I also don't like the idea of ascending things passed a point. Luke 23:34 'And Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they don't think it be like it is, but it do." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerBurge 2,374 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Thorn needs to be killed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sennex 1,903 Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 Get better! Luke 23:34 'And Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they don't think it be like it is, but it do." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JsinOwl 644 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 They need to completely disassociate crucible weapon stats and PvE stats, then rebalance the crucible side of things. This is how every game, that has both single and multi player aspects, I've ever played does things. If you decide to put your dick in crazy, be ready to change your phone number and relocate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sennex 1,903 Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 Sadly, most MMO's do not separate them. Actually I can't think of a single one that does Luke 23:34 'And Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they don't think it be like it is, but it do." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazzaGarratt 10,888 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I think I'd rather see changes in the enemies stats and ways to kill. Not many different enemies butthings like different crit spots, etc. Crucible is one of those things where i hate to say leave it alone, but they should or at least take away the last patch that Thorn so overused. Before the last patch I think PvP was pretty balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapntake 23 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 If the thorn isn't nerfed then as said earlier bring up the rest of the guns to match then at least then I'd stand a chance of a fair fight, th IB has turned into a thorn fest now and it just gets a little annoying most people using it, I have a thorn but haven't tried it yet as it needs levelling up but I'm not too good with hand cannons in PvP I just can't seem to get consecutive shots on target to get the kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JsinOwl 644 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Sadly, most MMO's do not separate them. Actually I can't think of a single one that doesI'm thinking of CoD and BF where the single player and multiplayer are relatively independent of each other. I guess in Destiny, it's all multiplayer to some extent. If you decide to put your dick in crazy, be ready to change your phone number and relocate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sennex 1,903 Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 I'm thinking of CoD and BF where the single player and multiplayer are relatively independent of each other. I guess in Destiny, it's all multiplayer to some extent. oh yea, good call. I didn't think about them Luke 23:34 'And Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they don't think it be like it is, but it do." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkArch3typ3 58 Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Thorn needed a nerf. Not because everyone and their mom's were using it but because it is op. It's like the original suros regime. You can't bring other weapons up to the same level because the ttk in crucible would be super low. Imagine Being one shotted everytime. Thorn needs a nerf. Hawkmoon is getting a proper balance as well. Tlw also needs to be toned down a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sennex 1,903 Posted July 31, 2015 Author Share Posted July 31, 2015 Hawkmoon is getting a proper balance as well. Tlw also needs to be toned down a bit. I disagree. The data shows that this last IB, the Red Death was not only used more, but also the Kill % was higher than Hawkmoon. The Last Word was actually higher than Hawkmoon as well. Luke 23:34 'And Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they don't think it be like it is, but it do." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkArch3typ3 58 Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Was that only for ps4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerBurge 2,374 Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Was that only for ps4?The article I was rea single combined starts for all consoles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techno 3,477 Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Yeh as hawkmoon is ps4 exclusive it will show lower stats in a combined console list. It says 500 of each console. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sennex 1,903 Posted August 1, 2015 Author Share Posted August 1, 2015 So divide Red Death and Last Word by 2 Hawkmoon is still lower Luke 23:34 'And Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they don't think it be like it is, but it do." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkArch3typ3 58 Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 I wouldn't say it's close when considering red death and tlw have been sold by xur. Hawkmoon remains to be a drop exclusive weapon. Those numbers would be a lot bigger when it becomes available console wide and when xur sells it. I'm afraid by that time it will be too late to gauge accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerBurge 2,374 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 So the way I look at it double Hawkmoon kills and it will be close to Last Word and Red Death in kills. Not usage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The3rdWalker 1,263 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 So I believe Bungie changes weapons in all of the wrong place- specifically range. Thorn, TLW, shotguns could all be balanced nicely by shortening up their range. Thorn's impact, poison etc are all nice and balanced. I believe the exotics shouldn't be changed into being unusable like what was done to auto rifles and fusion rifles. Just remove perfect balance from certain hand cannons and shorten the base range on the. Shotguns need to have range taken way down. Red Death is a big ol ' counter to Thorn at the moment. i7 7700k, 16GB RAM, GEFORCE 1080, 240GB SSHD, 2TB SSD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sennex 1,903 Posted August 3, 2015 Author Share Posted August 3, 2015 So the way I look at it double Hawkmoon kills and it will be close to Last Word and Red Death in kills. Not usage Data modelling kicking in: Why would you double the kills? In a perfect world they would have reported the stats separately for systems. Dividing is much safer statistically, as you know that you have two sets of data to look at for Red Death and Last Word. You know for certain that X number of people across two systems used the weapon. To settle it all though, I shot an email to the guy that made this and asked him to separate out the systems Luke 23:34 'And Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they don't think it be like it is, but it do." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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