Tipping

[McNasty 260]

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/trending/Diners-taunt-New-Jersey-waitress-with-LOL-tip-on-112-bill.html

 

Fuck this bitch.  

 

Not the customer, fuck the waiter.  FHRITP!

 

I waited tables for 5 years through high school and college, so I have some credibility in this argument.  I think what this customer did was awesome.  If you wait over an hour for your food, why the hell should you be expected to pay an additional 15-20% more for "service?"  Oh you poor thing.  You tried so hard, you did everything you could, you gave your customers food a solid hour after they ordered, and you deserve $20 for that.  It's the kitchens fault!  It's everyone elses fault, not mine!  LOL.  Tipping is not a reflection of service that just the waiter provides.  It's a reflection of the overall service the restaurant provides.  If the restaurant fails, you fail.  

 

Don't hesitate to put a big fat zero on the bill when you walk away from a restaurant unhappy because of whatever reason.

[Sennex 1,903]

Did you see the trend lately that higher minimum wage is having on Restaurants?

They are ditching Tips altogether.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/24/business/economy/as-minimum-wage-rises-restaurants-say-no-to-tips-yes-to-higher-prices.html

[Corey the Kiwi 83]

In New Zealand tipping isn't a thing so I've always found it weird that it is so big in the States.

With minimum wages high-ish over here there is no real need for it and from my perspective they are getting paid to do their job so I ain't going to give them more.

If minimum wages are raising in the USA then the need for tips as a crucial part of salary will disappear like the article Sennex posted. It will be interesting how it affects the tipping culture of America though.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[deterioration 443]

The patron(s) was in the right IMO. That article is absurd to suggest a 20-25% tip!? What about places Like Arizona that have an 11% state tax and another 10% infastructure tax; then add a 25% tip on top? I'm glad I can cook well.

 

My tips reflect your level of competency with a few dollars over doubling the tax being my limit. I’m not giving you a 1/4 of what I’ve spent for you to do your fucking job on the off chance you’re not a mouth breather who can.

[Drifter 851]

When it comes to tipping if the service was good then the normal tip here is about 15%. If the service was not good then it will reflect in the tip, if the service sucked then no tip.

 

Honestly though I feel tipping is a bunch of bullshit if you ask me. Why should the customer be expected to pick up the slack because the owner is too cheap to page a livable wage. Raising the minimum wage is NOT the answer either. The problem is state laws do not require an employer to pay a tipped worker minimum wage so they are allowed to pay waiters crap and then let the customer pick up the slack. That's bullshit IMO. Pass a law like some of the other states have done already and force employers of tipped workers to have to pay minimum wage and stop making the customer cover your employees wages.

 

Sorry for the rant, but tipping is one thing that I have always thought was total crap.

[DarkArch3typ3 58]

My tip is a courtesy tip. If you provide me with above average service, I will provide above average tip. If you provide a terrible service, I'll provide a low tip but won't be coming back to the place.

Unfortunately, sometimes it isn't the servers fault. Sometimes it's things like a terrible kitchen manager or being understaffed. That's why I provide a tip regardless of the service. Plus in Ontario, the minimum wage for servers is under $7 which is due to the opportunity to exceed that by getting tips.

[McNasty 260]

well to play devils advocate, waiters are paid less to keep labor costs down.  That translates into cheaper food.  Restaurants are slim margin operations, and I think tipping is a perfectly acceptable way of controlling profits and ensuring good customer service because there is an incentive to provide it.  It works out best this way for everyone.  If restaurants did away with tipping, they'd just raise their prices and we'd end up paying the same.  With tipping, we at least get to voice our opinion on the service and this ensures a focus on taking care of the customer.  In the end, we win this way as customers and so do the waiters who don't suck at their job.

[McNasty 260]

In the circumstances where the service sucks, it doesn't matter whose fault it is.  It's the law of averages.  Why should a table feel obligated to tip 15% when they had a horrible experience?  From a waiter's perspective, a few good tips here outweigh the bad tips there.  Tipping is a reflection of overall service provided and if the kitchen screws the waiter, thats not your problem as a customer.  Thats what rubs me wrong about this thread from the start.  Waiters average out what they're paid based on the number of tables they serve in a night.  One bad tip doesn't ruin their evening.  They had plenty of other good tips where the kitchen didn't screw up to make up for the one time they made mistakes.  In the end, their tips reflect the service they provided as well as the kitchen.  If the kitchen sucked, well poor tips for the waiters will force the restaurant to fix what's broken and at the end of the day thats what restaurant owners want.  Good service, and returning customers.

[Drifter 851]

well to play devils advocate, waiters are paid less to keep labor costs down.  That translates into cheaper food.  Restaurants are slim margin operations, and I think tipping is a perfectly acceptable way of controlling profits and ensuring good customer service because there is an incentive to provide it.  It works out best this way for everyone.  If restaurants did away with tipping, they'd just raise their prices and we'd end up paying the same.  With tipping, we at least get to voice our opinion on the service and this ensures a focus on taking care of the customer.  In the end, we win this way as customers and so do the waiters who don't suck at their job.

 

I think that is true in "some" cases, but not all. There's a very good mark up in some restaurants. There's one up by my cabin that my family eats at all the time while on vacation. One of my family's fav dish to order there is lasagna. A normal size piece there is $14.95 now this past July. There's six people in my family so that's $60 just off a small try of lasagna. Usually a complete meal there for us comes out to between $90-$110 total. And this is not a fancy place, just a hole in the wall 8 table joint out in the country. There's a good profit for them there. So while some places have a slim margin, I think a lot have a pretty healthy margin and it should not be placed on us to pick up the slack for the owners.

 

That'd be like me expecting tips from all my customers on the rods I build. I just personally don't agree with the whole tipping thing. If your gonna tip people for doing their job then where does it end? Just the way I feel about it though.

[McNasty 260]

not to mention the tip jars everywhere.  That crap is ridiculous

[Docwagon 856]

well to play devils advocate, waiters are paid less to keep labor costs down.  That translates into cheaper food.

 

Nope.  Overhead does not set prices.  Supply/demand sets prices.  Overhead may determine if you can stay in business or not, and ultimately may affect prices via reduced supply, but lower wages do not translate into lower retail prices.  They may simply translate into better margins for the business.

 

Without getting into competitive monopolies and the like, we can demonstrate this very easily.

 

Can of corn "A" costs the manufacturer 20 cents to make.

Can of corn "B" costs the manufacturer 5 cents to make.

Assume no differences in quality or brand preference on your part.

 

Both cans cost 50 cents.  Which do you buy?

Can "A" costs 70 cents.  Can "B" costs 55 cents.  Which do you buy?

 

In the first one, its a toss up.  Whichever one is closer on the shelf, maybe.  In the second, you're buying can "B".  You don't give a sideways poo how much it cost the manufacturer to make and the fact the margin is the same is irrelevant to you in deciding which can to buy.  You will not buy the more expensive can simply because it costs more to make.

[Drifter 851]

not to mention the tip jars everywhere.  That crap is ridiculous

 

 

I know man I hate that. I saw a tip jar at the friggin GAS STATION a couple weeks ago. A FUCKING GAS STATION???? that one really burned my ass.

[Drifter 851]

Nope.  Overhead does not set prices.  Supply/demand sets prices.  Overhead may determine if you can stay in business or not, and ultimately may affect prices via reduced supply, but lower wages do not translate into lower retail prices.  They may simply translate into better margins for the business.

 

 

Agree with ya there for sure Doc. Case in point, my rod business. At times when I am really pumping out rods I will build a few and sell on ebay for $125. That's while I am building pretty much the same rod for a customer that he is paying $175-$225 for. Why is that? Because HE came to ME (demand). Sure I am doing some of the stuff to his specs like colors his name on the rod etc etc, but I still have the same margins in the two builds. Supply and demand.

[GazzaGarratt 11,049]

I'm hoping to take the family back to America soon, but i know this time round I'll have to save up extra pennies just for the tips, which imo is bonkers. Tips are like bonuses. They're an additional fee/incentive for good performance, but not guaranteed. You shouldn't get one if your shit or even just as expected.

The sooner the mandatory tips goes away, you'll probably find more people tip because top quality service will shine through more and more.

[techno 3,510]

It's starting over here too but I've only come across it in American style eateries.

Thing is I feel I should add something then I feel guilty that what I added isn't really enough which is nuts someone just brought my dinner ffs.

[Baabcat 1,646]

Nope.  Overhead does not set prices.  Supply/demand sets prices.  Overhead may determine if you can stay in business or not, and ultimately may affect prices via reduced supply, but lower wages do not translate into lower retail prices.  They may simply translate into better margins for the business.

 

Whilst true the price in this case includes the expectation of a tip. I'm just back from America and it's a hard thing to get used to, but in reality you the consumer is getting a chance to vary the payment based on what you think it was worth. So reducing tips would push up wages, but overall price would stay the same, it would just be more fixed with a lower variable element

[McNasty 260]

Nope.  Overhead does not set prices.  Supply/demand sets prices.  Overhead may determine if you can stay in business or not, and ultimately may affect prices via reduced supply, but lower wages do not translate into lower retail prices.  They may simply translate into better margins for the business.

 

Without getting into competitive monopolies and the like, we can demonstrate this very easily.

 

Can of corn "A" costs the manufacturer 20 cents to make.

Can of corn "B" costs the manufacturer 5 cents to make.

Assume no differences in quality or brand preference on your part.

 

Both cans cost 50 cents.  Which do you buy?

Can "A" costs 70 cents.  Can "B" costs 55 cents.  Which do you buy?

 

In the first one, its a toss up.  Whichever one is closer on the shelf, maybe.  In the second, you're buying can "B".  You don't give a sideways poo how much it cost the manufacturer to make and the fact the margin is the same is irrelevant to you in deciding which can to buy.  You will not buy the more expensive can simply because it costs more to make.

 

If every server gets paid 2.13 an hour like they did when I waited tables, and now all servers make $15/hr, help me understand how that's not going to raise prices for food.  Every restaurant would go out of business.  They'll all raise prices.  They're all impacted the same.  Its not like they can decrease overhead, they all staff the minimum required to do the job anyway.  They can't start using crappier ingredients and change the food because people won't come.  They can't make the food cook faster (or manufacture the same stuff cheaper like in your example versus the next guy).   Restaurants operate on very slim margins.  They'll do anything to save a penny.  So if you add in additional labor costs, they have no other option but to raise prices.  If there was margin to be generated elsewhere to cover the additional labor costs, they would have already found it.  

 

Also in your example, let's say that the government imposes a tax on aluminum.  Now everyone's COGS is up equally.  Do we just expect them to make less money, or raise prices.  We all know that consumers pay taxes, not corporations.  Raising the minimum wage for everyone is no different than a tax, and it will be handled the same way.  At least in my opinion.

[McNasty 260]

Economic Lesson: TANSTAAFMWH, — “there ain’t no such thing as a free minimum wage hike.” Or to paraphrase David French, vice-president of the National Retail Federation, “There simply isn’t any magic pot of money that lets employers pay higher wages just because the government says so, without making adjustments elsewhere like cutting workers’ hours, reducing their non-cash fringe benefits, and/or passing the higher wages along to consumers in the form of higher prices.”

 

https://www.aei.org/publication/who-d-a-thunk-it-sf-minimum-wage-increased-14-and-local-chipotles-just-raised-prices-by-10-14/

[Jason 1,245]

My family owns a bar and restaurant, and let me tell you first hand that if we have to pay dishwashers and wait staff 15 dollars an hour then the price of food and drinks just skyrocketed for the consumer. We won't be able to pull that money out of out ass.

I know people think if you own your own business and it does well, then you must be rolling in money. The truth though is most people have absolutely zero idea what goes into running a restaurant. Especially for the small business owner, not chains.

If you don't want to tip like Mr pink then that's your own decision. I think your a dick, but ok. If you want tipping to go away, then you're paying 15+ dollars for a cheeseburger at our restaurant and probably 5 for a bud light, or we would probably be closing the doors.

[DarkArch3typ3 58]

I tip regardless. I know a lot of restaurants the servers have to pay a certain portion of the bill to the kitchen. They say you should tip 10-15% of your bill. The kitchen is supposed to get 2-4% on I believe every bill order. If you don't tip, the server has to use their own money.

I don't know if that's true or not everywhere, that's in the place my cousin works in. I will still provide a tip even if the service is terrible, but I'll make sure to let others know this place isn't worth going to. I don't mean when a kitchen is backed up. I'm talking about getting seated and no one coming every few minutes to check on us. I understand kitchens get backed up sometimes and that's no problem.

If you sit me down and not ask for my drink order or ask for it and it takes you 15 minutes to bring us our drinks, we have a problem.

If we order food and you leave our table and not come back to check on our drinks every 10 minutes that's a bit of a problem.

If you know the kitchen is backed up and you don't come and let us know, we have a problem.

I'll still tip but not coming back again.

[McNasty 260]

Don't get caught up in thinking that your 1 tip makes or breaks a night for a waiter.  I waited tables at chain restaurants - Chilis, Red Lobster, and a couple other local restaurants for about 5 years through high school and college.  I'd wait on anywhere from 10-30 tables a night, and usually end up making about $15-$20/hr after tip out.  Sometimes I'd walk out with $150+ in my pocket from one night working at Chilis of all places.  If your service sucks, don't feel obligated to tip anything.  It doesn't make you a bad person, and the waiter has plenty of other tables to make up for it.  When I get great service I tip well over 20%.  Sometimes up to 50% depending on how much I've had to drink.  When I get crap service, I give zero and don't think twice.

[DarkArch3typ3 58]

Yeah I can't do that lol. I get what you're saying but I'm Canadian. =D

[Docwagon 856]

If every server gets paid 2.13 an hour like they did when I waited tables, and now all servers make $15/hr, help me understand how that's not going to raise prices for food.  Every restaurant would go out of business.  They'll all raise prices.  They're all impacted the same.  Its not like they can decrease overhead, they all staff the minimum required to do the job anyway.  They can't start using crappier ingredients and change the food because people won't come.  They can't make the food cook faster (or manufacture the same stuff cheaper like in your example versus the next guy).   Restaurants operate on very slim margins.  They'll do anything to save a penny.  So if you add in additional labor costs, they have no other option but to raise prices.  If there was margin to be generated elsewhere to cover the additional labor costs, they would have already found it.  

 

Also in your example, let's say that the government imposes a tax on aluminum.  Now everyone's COGS is up equally.  Do we just expect them to make less money, or raise prices.  We all know that consumers pay taxes, not corporations.  Raising the minimum wage for everyone is no different than a tax, and it will be handled the same way.  At least in my opinion.

 

It depends.  Is the customer willing to pay more?  Or will they reject the price hike and substitute (eating at home more often, etc.)  If not, you are right, some businesses will go under.  Their margins will be insufficient to absorb the increased cost and they will die off.  This will reduce supply until supply/demand re-equalize.  Prices may go up, supply may go down, demand may go down.

 

For aluminum, what's the nearest substitute?  Does it now look more economically feasible?  Can I use that substitute instead?  Again, prices may go up, supply may go down, or demand may go down.  

 

Many things affect supply and demand...but supply and demand set price.

[Baabcat 1,646]

I

If you sit me down and not ask for my drink order or ask for it and it takes you 15 minutes to bring us our drinks, we have a problem.

If we order food and you leave our table and not come back to check on our drinks every 10 minutes that's a bit of a problem.

LOL that is so me. I think the only times I haven't tipped in restaurants is when I've been left without a drink for too long. Really winds me up