CIA torture report

[J4MES OX4D 10,025]

Pretty damning

http://news.sky.com/story/1388772/senate-cia-covered-up-brutal-interrogation

 

Live feed

http://news.sky.com/story/1388721/live-cia-reveals-interrogation-techniques

[Madjonny 386]

I know it's not the same, it's not real but having been someone who watched 24, you can see that these methods of interrogation are probably necacerry in real situations...

I know shows like 24 are a bit over the top, but the ideas and scenarios come from somewhere...

I kinda thought everyone knew this sort of thing went on behind closed doors...

[jordie1892 681]

You can deprive me of sleep, bombard me with music, shit you can beat me. But rectal fucking hydration? Hell no!

 

As Jonny said, I'm pretty sure everyone knew this type of shit happened already.

[Madjonny 386]

So, I just googled rectal hydration, amd all that comes up is variants on this article james posted...

So what is it exactly?

[Plumbers Crack 4,059]

So, I just googled rectal hydration, amd all that comes up is variants on this article james posted...

So what is it exactly?

https://www.zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=82400

I imagine the CIA version involved a dry hose pipe........

[jordie1892 681]

Just re-read my last post. INB4 out of context thread.

[Docwagon 856]

2 things:

1) This has been general knowledge for anyone who cared to learn about it for years, although the particular details of who got what enema are new. Interestingly enough, the FBI used regular ol' criminal interrogation techniques just like they do with domestic criminals...and got more accurate and more actionable intelligence faster. The funny thing about torture is people hit their limit and say whatever they think you want to hear. A good interrogation isn't about getting someone to talk, its about getting someone to WANT to talk and to give you good intel. Ah, hardened terrorists won't confess or rat out their buddies, though, right? Odd that people will confess and implicate their buddies in things they know are sending them to prison, and why defense attorneys always tell you to not talk to the police. Because good interrogators get the truth, and get it without slamming people against walls and shoving things up their exits.

2) Remember when Allen West was forced into retirement and almost tried as a war criminal for discharging a pistol near a detainee's head? I do. I sent a check to his defense fund. So, if Col. West's "enhanced interrogation" was a war crime, what are these? In case you forgot: CNN.com - U.S. officer fined for harsh interrogation tactics - Dec. 13, 2003

"But while West's supporters call him a hero, military prosecutors said his actions amounted to torture and violated articles 128 and 134 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice."       

[Sennex 1,903]

Rectal Hydration?

 

Now I want to listen to some Led Zeppelin

 

[BO7H B4RRELS 2,452]

Rectal Hydration?

 

Now I want to listen to some Led Zeppelin

 

 

LOL!  Nice.  Not a very popular ablum, but it defintely has some good songs, In the Evening & All My Love, in particular. 

[JsinOwl 644]

I have mixed feelings about this on the one hand a terrorist shit head probably deserves to have his balls tied to a camel and get pulled around the town square. On the other hand, I feel like we're supposed to be better than this. That not resorting to barbarism is what makes us the "good" guys. I don't know, haven't given it a ton of thought, but my initial gut response is that we as a civilized nation need to be above this.

[McNasty 260]

1) This has been general knowledge for anyone who cared to learn about it for years, although the particular details of who got what enema are new. Interestingly enough, the FBI used regular ol' criminal interrogation techniques just like they do with domestic criminals...and got more accurate and more actionable intelligence faster. The funny thing about torture is people hit their limit and say whatever they think you want to hear. A good interrogation isn't about getting someone to talk, its about getting someone to WANT to talk and to give you good intel. Ah, hardened terrorists won't confess or rat out their buddies, though, right? Odd that people will confess and implicate their buddies in things they know are sending them to prison, and why defense attorneys always tell you to not talk to the police. Because good interrogators get the truth, and get it without slamming people against walls and shoving things up their exits.  

 

In general I agree with you, but the people who were interrogated here were not your run of the mill hoodlum that doesn't want to be known as a snitch to all his gangster friends.  These guys think blowing up Americans will grant them access to 72 virgins to pound for all eternity in heaven.  I'd bet the best interrogator in the world wouldn't have convinced these guys to give up the information they did.  To them, giving up that information would be going against Allah, not Akbar their cave dwelling butt buddy.  

 

And a panel that's all Democrat?  Why is anyone taking this seriously?  It's all politics.  I take their conclusions with a grain of salt, as should everyone else.  They "concluded" that the enhanced interrogations didn't yield any useful information.  Big surprise there right lol.  Well I, McNasty, "conclude" that they're full of shit.  Democrats have forgotten what it's like to have planes fly into our buildings, killing our friends and family who just wanted to show up to work, get paid, and go home.  

 

Maybe we should follow Hillary's advice and start showing Al Qaeda a little more respect.  Then we wouldn't have to bother with enhanced interrogations because we'd become besties.

[Drifter 851]

Enhanced interrogation, torture, whatever you want to label it is nothing new. It has been going on since the first tribes of man started fighting a long time ago. Is it 'right"? no, on a human level it is not right. But no one here can honestly say weather or not it has yielded information that has prevented another terrorist attack or the loss of innocent lives.To say that it does not provide useful intel is simply something no one can say with any certainty at all because we have no clue what info it has given. So even though I don't feel it is right, it does fall into that area of things where it may be a necessary evil. Because we all know that there are things done by our Government which are preformed by a select group that helps to keep our Country and way of life safe. 

[Sennex 1,903]

Thats not necessarily true.

 

Every publicly released instance in the past where the CIA has said we got X from torture has been proven false within this report. In other words they have lied.

 

Seriously, read the report, it clearly shows how we received no credible information of any future or passed attacks on us or any of our allies.

In fact it shows that the information we did receive was already known, and the prisoners only confirmed that information after being presented it.

(In other words, I tell you its raining outside, I then drown you a few times, or break your leg and make you stand on it, and as you if its raining outside)

 

Link for those that want to Download it: http://www.intelligence.senate.gov/study2014/sscistudy1.pdf

 

The report is long as hell and will most likely depress you, so be careful. Its 525 pages, I am only about 100 into it.

 

Also, another urban myth is that all of these prisoners were "Bad" is false, in the few cases brought to trial, the majority have been found innocent.

I can start citing passages here soon, if you all want me to.

 

EDIT: This point is fairly early on:

 

there was no relationship between the cited counterterrorism success and any information provided by detainees during or after the use of the CIA’s enhanced interrogation techniques. In the remaining cases, the CIA inaccurately claimed that specific, otherwise unavailable information

was acquired from a CIA detainee “as a result” of the CIA’s enhanced interrogation techniques, when in fact the information was either: (1) corroborative of information already available to the CIA or other elements of the U.S. Intelligence Community from sources other than the CIA
detainee, and was therefore not “otherwise unavailable”; or (2) acquired from the CIA detainee prior to the use of the CIA’s enhanced interrogation techniques.

The examples provided by the CIA included numerous factual inaccuracies.

In providing the “effectiveness” examples to policymakers, the Department of Justice, and others, the CIA consistently omitted the significant amount of relevant intelligence obtained from sources other than CIA detainees who had been subjected to the CIA’s enhanced
interrogation techniques—leaving the false impression the CIA was acquiring unique information from the use of the techniques.
Some of the plots that the CIA claimed to have “disrupted” as a result of the CIA’s enhanced interrogation techniques were assessed by intelligence and law enforcement officials as being infeasible or ideas that were never operationalized.

 

 

My opinion: 

 

At this point, I can say without a shadow of a doubt, that our country was wrong, we were lied to, we were made to believe things that were patently false, and we tortured and mistreated people (Leading to several deaths), to cover up what we were doing.

 

I think Bush was a "Useful Idiot", and I honestly think that Cheney was some sort of Sith lord for scamming most in the way he has.

 

I still love Rumsfield though

[Drifter 851]

Obviously I don't have time to read 525 pages Sennex, and I'm sure there are times were it did not lead to any useful info. And being lied to by our Gov is common knowledge I think everyone knows their Gov lies to them lol.. but personally I fail to believe it has never lead to any useful info at all.  I personally believe in the theory of "greater good" and if there is a chance that useful info could come from it then it's one of those things I accept. Just my beliefs, you don't have to agree with me at all.

[Sennex 1,903]

I edited in a point that was made early on in the PDF. That might have been missed.

 

here it is again:

 

 

there was no relationship between the cited counterterrorism success and any information provided by detainees during or after the use of the CIA’s enhanced interrogation techniques. In the remaining cases, the CIA inaccurately claimed that specific, otherwise unavailable information was acquired from a CIA detainee “as a result” of the CIA’s enhanced interrogation techniques, when in fact the information was either: (1) corroborative of information already available to the CIA or other elements of the U.S. Intelligence Community from sources other than the CIA detainee, and was therefore not “otherwise unavailable”; or (2) acquired from the CIA detainee prior to the use of the CIA’s enhanced interrogation techniques.

 

The examples provided by the CIA included numerous factual inaccuracies.

 

In providing the “effectiveness” examples to policymakers, the Department of Justice, and others, the CIA consistently omitted the significant amount of relevant intelligence obtained from sources other than CIA detainees who had been subjected to the CIA’s enhanced interrogation techniques—leaving the false impression the CIA was acquiring unique information from the use of the techniques.

Some of the plots that the CIA claimed to have “disrupted” as a result of the CIA’s enhanced interrogation techniques were assessed by intelligence and law enforcement officials as being infeasible or ideas that were never operationalized.

-----------------------

 

In other words, Nothing of value was gained from this.

[Drifter 851]

  I did not miss that....I never said I was just referring to this most recent instance which mostly is from the Bush administration. Terrorism and "enhanced techniques" were both alive and well long before 9/11. These ones they are making public are just from the most recent issues of the direct results of post 9/11.

 

I am simply saying that you can not tell me there has never been an instance where it has not gained us some useful info at some point in time which may or may not have helped prevent the lose of American lives, which includes pre 9/11 time frame.

 

You don't have to try to prove me wrong, because IMO there is no right / wrong here because this is just a matter of how we each view things. And I personally feel that we have no possible way of knowing 100% for sure if since these practices were first started to be used (50's?, 60's? 70's? 80's? when was the first documented terrorist attack?) We have no way of knowing 100% if there ever was any useful info gained or not. That is all I am saying.

[Sennex 1,903]

//Followup//

 

I agree that we all knew "torture" was happening; I don't think anyone knew the degree, or lack of oversight it was committed under.

 

I was under the naive thought, still, that the United States of America was better than this. Water boarding was always a grey area for me, but to read that it actually caused several drownings where paramedics had to bring detainees back to life, is a shade much.

 

Letting someone freeze to the concrete floor and die of hypothermia, because you took away his clothing, and chained him to the floor, in a detention facility, in Poland, in November, with no heat, because you wanted to go home to your family......... Yea thats some nazi level shit

 

When you leave a detainee in isolation, for 48 days, with 1 meal a day, and only a bucket for his own waste, because you needed a break to go on vacation, and see your family..... Really?

 

Anally probing someone so many times that their rectum prolapses...... thats fucked up.

 

I can't help but flip the narrative as I read this.

 

I keep swapping the term "CIA" for ISIL or Al'Qa'ida, and my blood boils at the thought of someone doing this to Americans. That made me realize that my reaction should be the same when it happens to anyone.

 

Especially when we have gained ZERO credible information, as the report and committee tried to find instances of credible information, and didn't.

[Sennex 1,903]

follow/ followup

 

Drifter, not attacking you, just voicing my mind. Honestly reading this thing. I don't know why I started, and at this point I can't stop

 

Its disheartening

it makes me sad to be an American.

[Drifter 851]

Honestly IMO I think it is something we all knew went on but never wanted to acknowledge.

[Sennex 1,903]

your right.

 

I knew it was happening to a point. Never to the full degree though, and now I regret my decision to read this. Ignorance is bliss, and I am no longer happy

[Drifter 851]

Here allow me to help get your mind off of this.......

.

.

.

.

.

.

[Sennex 1,903]

Thanks man

 

I need a big bucket of Ben and Jerry's Phish Food ice Cream and a nonstop stream of Futurama

 

[McNasty 260]

If the government supposedly has been lying to us all along about the outcomes of enhanced interrogation , wouldn't it be feasible to say they're lying here?  It's what politicians do.  They bend the truth to justify their positions.  A partisan study, done by biased politicians, isn't worth the paper its written on.  They found the conclusions they sought.

 

I'm not defending the degree of malice that we showed here, thats another conversation.  I take issue with a bunch of Democrats saying that none of it gave us any valuable intel that we didn't already have.  Put a bunch of Republicans on the committee along with you and if you come to the same conclusion, I'll pay attention.

[McNasty 260]

And I loved how Feinstein said that they released the report now because "there might never be a good time to release the report".  I wonder if it had anything to do with Jonathan Gruber being scheduled to testify before the House oversight committee about how the entire Affordable Care Act was sold to us stupid voters with lies and deception. 

 

Oh those politicians, always throwing shiny new toys out there to draw attention away from the mud slinging they deserve

[JsinOwl 644]

So what you're saying is that the CIA should be allowed to do whatever they want under a Republican administration, because no one but the Democrats will question the actions of a Republican president. You know this to be true.