Want to buy Colt?

[Docwagon 856]

http://online.wsj.com/articles/gun-manufacturer-colt-warns-of-possible-default-1415892942

 

Thanks to an owner and investors who've viewed it as a piggy bank to be raided instead of a business to be grown, Colt will likely default soon.  The assets, including the Colt name, may be up for auction.

 

It's a shame.  Colt is an American icon, but years of ignoring the civilian market, lack of innovation, draining money from the company to fund the owner and investor's wealth at the expense of the company's health, and it just adds up to a failing business.

[Drifter 851]

Pretty sad stuff. A company that truly had a huge part in settling the West should be treated better than the owners have done with it.

 

 

[cyberninja2601 1,106]

You have to subscribe to the wall street Journal to  read the entire story so I didn't look at the entire thing.

 

What are people buying instead? I would think that not buying guns in general is a good thing, but I don't think that is realistic. 

[phil bottle 9,817]

Pretty sad stuff. A company that truly had a huge part in settling the West should be treated better than the owners have done with it.

 

 

 

As in murdering and decimating the indigenous American population? And you're the one who doesn't like illegal immigrants

 

Were Colt on the bandwagon of arming the psychopaths of the world with weapons like all the other arms manufacturers?

 

We're all reaping the benefits of that.

 

I'm sarcastic today. Don't take it personally.

[Sennex 1,903]

Pretty sad stuff. A company that truly had a huge part in settling the West should be treated better than the owners have done with it.

 

 

 

Not to mention making and supplying the allies in both world wars.

[Drifter 851]

 

As in murdering and decimating the indigenous American population? And you're the one who doesn't like illegal immigrants

 

FYI my great grandmother was 100% Cherokee from North Carolina, so nothing "illegal immigrant" about that thank you very much. And settling the West was not just about killing off the Native American indian, it was also about the wild animals, protecting family and homestead and other disputes.

 

 

Were Colt on the bandwagon of arming the psychopaths of the world with weapons like all the other arms manufacturers?

 

Most criminals do not legally buy guns. I won't even waste time explaining that though.

[Docwagon 856]

You have to subscribe to the wall street Journal to  read the entire story so I didn't look at the entire thing.

 

What are people buying instead? I would think that not buying guns in general is a good thing, but I don't think that is realistic. 

 

Sales were increasing and were not the issue.  The "investors" and owner were pulling millions of dollars out of the business, over a quarter billion dollars over a 5 year period.  Sales weren't enough to keep up with that drain.  They were even borrowing money as a corporation to pay themselves personally.  The company is bled dry by the people who are supposed to be growing it.

[Sennex 1,903]

Crony Capitalism At its best!

[phil bottle 9,817]

And settling the West was not just about killing off the Native American indian, it was also about the wild animals, protecting family and homestead and other disputes.

Well, that's okay then, thanks for educating me.

 

When I said 'psychopaths' I was referring to world governments not individual criminals. But I suppose someone has to profit from war and death and pity Colt can't seem to find the right one.

 

My original post was unnecessary and facile, no matter what I might believe, I just find it weak to blame poor people for the problems of the world's biggest economy. Particularly as many 'illegal' immigrants (what a fucking expression) come from countries impoverished by the US war economy. NAFTA, for example, has pretty much destroyed the Mexican economy. You reap what you sow, and all that. 

 

I'm being out of order probably so just tell me to fuck off, I have to let these things out sometimes. I'm a very frustrated man

[Diddums 4,346]

Sounds like you need a beer Phil.

[Dattebayo 446]

Damn....tragic. Such a storied and iconic company, felled by the greed of the people in charge of tending to it.

 

Hopefully the new owner (if it even gets one) picks Colt back off it's feet and brings it back up to it's former glory.

But I'm dreaming big, aren't I?

[deterioration 443]

Sad but unsurprising and yes 2 actually a Colt Thompson submachine gun and a Colt-Burgess rifle. Common Santa!

[Docwagon 856]

Damn....tragic. Such a storied and iconic company, felled by the greed of the people in charge of tending to it.

 

Hopefully the new owner (if it even gets one) picks Colt back off it's feet and brings it back up to it's former glory.

But I'm dreaming big, aren't I?

 

Big corporate names seldom die.  It's an asset as much as a patent is.  Look at Indian motorcycles.  Dead for decades and revived, dies again, revived again.  Somebody will buy "Colt" and start cranking them out again.

 

 

 NAFTA, for example, has pretty much destroyed the Mexican economy. 

 

I'd love to see you back that up.  

 

The Mexican economy tanked in the early 80's, well before NAFTA.  In the late 80s, they had years of inflation between 50% and 160%.  Silver, one of their primary exports, dropped like a rock in price.  Their oil industry  Their government is widely recognized as being full of corruption at all levels, the black market is huge and doesn't contribute to the reported economy, other developing nations such as Bangladesh took over much of the low skill labor market for manufacturing as they'd work even cheaper, China became a major power house at the expense of other nations dependent on cheap manufacturing, and you blame NAFTA?  

 

 

[phil bottle 9,817]

 

I'd love to see you back that up.  

 

The Mexican economy tanked in the early 80's, well before NAFTA.  In the late 80s, they had years of inflation between 50% and 160%.  Silver, one of their primary exports, dropped like a rock in price.  Their oil industry  Their government is widely recognized as being full of corruption at all levels, the black market is huge and doesn't contribute to the reported economy, other developing nations such as Bangladesh took over much of the low skill labor market for manufacturing as they'd work even cheaper, China became a major power house at the expense of other nations dependent on cheap manufacturing, and you blame NAFTA?  

 

 

 

 

 

One goal of NAFTA was to "lock Mexico in" to the so-called reforms of the 1980s, which created billionaires at about the same rate as they enhanced poverty. These "reforms" are the great benefit to the US owners, managers, and investors, though not to working people. NAFTA was one of those rare treaties that managed to harm the working populations in all countries participating: Canada, the US, and Mexico. The US labour movement had proposed alternatives that would have benefitted the workforce in all 3 countries. Similar proposals were developed by Congress's Office of Technology Assessment (since disbanded). The proposals were never entered to the political agenda, and were even barred from the media.

The attraction of NAFTA for North American elites, the business press reported, was "precisely that it would tie the hands of the current future governments" of Mexico with regard to the economic policy. In brief, NAFTA, duly imposed by executive power, in opposition to the public will.

 

Does this help? Plus the following was written 20 years ago and is the tip of the iceberg. I've plenty more 'back up', 20 years worth in fact.

 

http://www.chomsky.info/books/secrets03.htm

 

 

The thing about sticking your head in the ground, it leaves your arse exposed to the world.

 

But yeah, blame illegal immigrants (and China now) instead of looking at American domestic and foreign policy.

 

South America in general is in a pretty poor state thanks to your government's involvement since the 50s. US involvement in that whole part of the world has been nothing but pure evil.

 

They didn't need your help, as you so rightly state, but you've never stopped 'helping', have you.

[Drifter 851]

 

But yeah, blame illegal immigrants (and China now) instead of looking at American domestic and foreign policy.

 

Phil let me tell you something. I didn't bother replying to your last reply but after this most recent one I will.

 

London is a long fucking way from the US so don't claim to know about the "illegal immigrant" issues here until you have actually lived here and see the issues we have for yourself. You can say all you want that we should not blame issue here on illegal immigrant but that is complete and utter bullshit, talk about sticking your head in the ground. I do not need to nor care to explain it to you but just so you have a slight bit of enlightenment..the issue here is that we share a boarder with Mexico. Everyday there are literally thousands illegally coming over the boarder to the US. Right now there are 11.7 Million illegals in this country. If you knew people that lived in the areas near the border you would know what I am talking about. Many American citizens can't even find work in places such as areas of Arizona where one of my good friends live because there are so many illegals that have crossed over and they work for a few dollars and hour and are hired under the table which takes jobs from legal hard working Americans. And I wont even go into the fact that many of the illegals are bringing their criminal records with them into this country because they have ties to the cartels in Mexico.

 

That is all I am going to say about that, but I will say one other thing about you Phil. People such as yourself are what ruin websites. Doc makes a post about a well known company that is having issues and you have to chime in with your BS attitude and take Doc's post so far off topic to suit your know it all arrogant views and come across as a total asshole, that is it just utterly ridiculous.

 

At my age I do not need to waste time in pissing matches online with complete strangers who think they know everything, so I will not be clicking on this thread again and wasting my time so go ahead and say what you want but I won't be reading it now. Congrats on screwing a topic 180 degrees and turning it into a pissfest.

[Sennex 1,903]

Lets be careful here folks

[phil bottle 9,817]

I've no problem with anyone mate, not much point in that, half the people in London think the same as you, even the immigrants.

 

I come from an immigrant family, my folks are Irish, so immigration has always been an important topic for me. I have watched too many people over the years look for easy solutions and scapegoats to difficult questions. So I always challenge certain points of view. 

 

I don't think there's any need for some of what was just said there. You may confuse arrogance with passion possibly. I certainly don't know it all. I'm very ignorant about too many things.

 

But anyway, don't worry about it, I may 'ruin websites' but don't let me ruin your day.

[Docwagon 856]

One goal of NAFTA was to "lock Mexico in" to the so-called reforms of the 1980s, which created billionaires at about the same rate as they enhanced poverty. 

 

 

Even if we accept that as true, you're blaming the US for MEXICAN policies within MEXICO that were in place for 14 years before NAFTA?  Seems like the Mexicans screwed up Mexico, they didn't need our help.

 

Did the US cause the commodity market to tank?  

 

Did the US build the Mexicans to build their economy on cheap low skill manufacturing labor, and then cause other countries to develop and work even more cheaply?

 

Did the US nationalize their oil industry for them and eliminate free market incentive to efficiently scout for and exploit oil reserves?

Did the US cause their ultra inflation?

Did the US cause their government to be rife with corruption and bribery, with elected officials being in bed with violent drug cartels?

 

Did the US cause their oppressive bureaucracy for opening a legitimate small business, and requiring Immigration to approve any duties done by foreign nationals attempting to open a business in Mexico?

Did the US cause Mexico to allow much of their economy to exist in the black market, away from the 30% corporate tax rate and off the books?

 

Did the US cause them to fail to invest in infrastructure, education, and the other requirements to build a healthy modern economy?

 

If you think NAFTA caused Mexico's ills, you have oversimplified to the point of absurdity, and a random internet article from 1994 from an opponent isn't going to change that.  I've been on the border, I've seen the illegals coming across, I've spoken with them (and been offered cocaine by them) in the late 90's.  I've seen the construction labor market crash as illegals took less-than-living wages to do the work.  I've seen the cartels try to make inroads into my own city, the gangs that think they can run the town here like they do in Mexico.

[cyberninja2601 1,106]

Nah, you got to blame the Spanish, French and English. Had those clowns kept their boats at home everything in America would be fine

[Sennex 1,903]

Nah, you got to blame the Spanish, French and English. Had those clowns kept their boats at home everything in America would be fine

 

Truth!

[Diddums 4,346]

A few things:

 

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Take away their guns and they'll use knives. Take away their knives and they'll use sticks. At the end of the day, whoever has the biggest stick wins. Hence guns. 

 

Secondly, immigrants, legal or not, are very different in Europe and America. Neither has "better" immigrants. It's easy to speak of these things when there's a million miles of water between you and the country you're speaking about, but the fact is that the info you're more likely to have is whatever the media throw at you, which is as corrupt and bent as a three dollar bill. The real life and the press reports are very different matters entirely. 

 

 

I tend to avoid these topics nowadays as I've been proven wrong once too many, mainly due to the crap sources of info we have to go by. This topic however is full of misinformation, so stop it. 

 

If you can't keep it civil, I'll do a clean up and we're back to Colt. 

 

 

 

 

Actually, we're back to Colt. End of story. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

//I find it tragic that iconic companies like this can go down the pan so fast. Regardless of the motives or origins of these companies, the fact is that they form a massive part of US history, and shouldn't be allowed to go down. Still, much like Indian Motorcycles, which knows all too well what the bottom of the pit looks like, I reckon someone will snap it up and save it. 

[McNasty 260]

One more thing to mention in the spirit of honest debate, is that there are plenty of fingers we can point at illegals for the rise in our healthcare costs. What's happened to our healthcare costs here is mind boggling. Every year it gets worse, and illegals are a primary reason for this. That means everyone who pays, gets screwed more and more each time uncle Julio and family jump the fence. Most families today pay near as much in healthcare as they do in taxes each month. That's why so many chose to go without, few can afford it. So it amplifies the problem because all of these people don't pay, and the cycle goes on and on.

My wife is a NICU nurse. Illegals come here, have babies so they can avoid deportation, and the first question they ask is where they can get social security. Yeah, free money from my pocket to theirs. They know how to game the system. She sees it every single day, it's a fucking joke between the whole nursing staff. They make bets on how long it will take before the question gets asked where they can sign up. Illegals don't pay shit because they don't have anything, they know nobody will do anything about it, and our hospitals are not allowed to refuse service. You have any idea what a NICU bill looks like? Lol. So me and everyone else ends up paying for it. So it's not just about jobs, it's about the effect they have on the system that screws everyone over. And they aren't allowed to be here in the first place, legally

Just something else to think about.

Sorry Dave.

That being said, brands come and go. Ford and General Motors are core American brands and their cars are shit on wheels. Never shot a Colt, but I doubt anyone will miss them.

[Sennex 1,903]

Focus on Colt or make a new damn thread.