J4MES OX4D 9,901 Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 A story containing footage about a motorcyclist David Holmes who was killed in a collision with a vehicle. The rider was going 97mph which exceeds the UK speed limit significantly by nearly 30mph. The driver was also prosecuted and convicted which I find fucking ridiculous based on the behaviour of the motorcyclist. There is also a debate growing on who's fault it actually was!? You be the judge.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madjonny 386 Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 That was 1 video it did still let me watch yesterday... Driver of the Clio was prosecuted I believe, but at 97 mph the guy probably did look, and possibly didn't see the bike... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techno 3,493 Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 It was 50/50 the driver pulled out in front of traffic, regardless of the speed he was driving without due care and attention. I am a biker and yes the biker has to share some of the blame the speed in the right place is no problem but that really wasn't the right place, we know as bikers car drivers don't see us so with the situation I would have been significantly slower due not only to on coming traffic turning but just because of the junction, but I would also move in my lane to draw eye contact towards the movement. Had he lived both would have been prosecuted. deterioration 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chookes 965 Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 What sentence did the driver get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J4MES OX4D 9,901 Posted September 6, 2014 Author Share Posted September 6, 2014 What sentence did the driver get? 130 hours unpaid work and 18 month driving ban after admitting causing death by dangerous driving. If he had denied the charge; he would have been found not guilty. He should have been charged with causing death by driving without due care or attention - Holmes was the one doing the dangerous driving. The UK is completely clueless with driving offences in courts though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JsinOwl 644 Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 As a motorcyclist I'd say it's a least two thirds the fault of the rider. The driver may well have seen him and misjudged his speed. Had been going the speed limit, the car would have safely made its turn. I also paused the video right as the car is seen to start turning, and there was a healthy distance the rider could have used to stop or evade had he not been going so fast. As a rider it is incumbent upon us to recognize that we are difficult to see and dangerously exposed. When I ride, I do so with a constant tactical scan, observing all, anticipating what other vehicles might do, and putting myself in a position to avoid potential disaster. J4MES OX4D 1 If you decide to put your dick in crazy, be ready to change your phone number and relocate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCA-Paendrag 2,704 Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Completely the riders fault imo. The driver probably sees him but thinks he is respecting the speed limit and thinks he has plenty of time. Pisses me off when these kind of bikers use the road as their own race track without any regard of others. J4MES OX4D 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techno 3,493 Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Completely the riders fault imo. The driver probably sees him but thinks he is respecting the speed limit and thinks he has plenty of time. Pisses me off when these kind of bikers use the road as their own race track without any regard of others. Thing is 99% of the people on this fair isle don't respect the speed limits... if the driver would have seen him he wouldn't have cut across the carriageway the speed he was riding at has no bearing on this at all. Just to back that up the isle of man has no speed limits on sections of road and having been there bikers don't get pulled out on constantly. I can also debunk the theory that we have no regard for others as obviously we stand a greater chance of harm, fact is even at normal and legal road speeds we still get pulled out on, its how my 125 was destroyed and is known as a smidsy ( sorry mate I didn't see you). One other thing the standard of driving in this country has got steadily worse over the years, just look at the insurance cost increases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chookes 965 Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 130 hours unpaid work and 18 month driving ban after admitting causing death by dangerous driving. Are you sure it was dangerous and not careless? I know someone who went through this recently, she was sentenced in May and got double the community service and more than double the driving ban for death by careless driving. Dangerous driving would have been a custodial sentence in her case but the reduced careless charge was accepted. Anyway, my view for what it's worth. I originally thought this was the car driver's fault, until I found out the biker was going 97mph. Originally when I saw it I didn't even consider he was going that fast as I thought the video was to do with drivers being more considerate to bikers (which I'm for) but 97mph is just ridiculous and puts, not just yourself at risk but others as well. Bikes aren't always easy to see and it might be easy to make a misjudgement when you're not aware someone is going almost 100mph towards you. I'm all for drivers being more considerate for bikers as they are far more vulnerable to getting hurt, even at much slower speeds but this isn't what I took from the video. Slow down. It didn't have to be a bike in this clip, it could easily have been a car and the damage to passengers could have been the same, or worse (both parties could have been killed). If you speed like that then you make yourself more vulnerable to other people's mistakes. Slowing down doesn't get rid of the amount of idiots on the road but at least it gives you a better chance of surviving if it does happen. The whole video freaked me out a little. Watching him just driving and overtaking, and probably loving every minute of it, and then all of a sudden that second when the car pulled out on him and you heard his yelp just freaked me out. You could be gone so quickly. Scary stuff. Madjonny 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J4MES OX4D 9,901 Posted September 7, 2014 Author Share Posted September 7, 2014 Are you sure it was dangerous and not careless? I know someone who went through this recently, she was sentenced in May and got double the community service and more than double the driving ban for death by careless driving. Dangerous driving would have been a custodial sentence in her case but the reduced careless charge was accepted. Anyway, my view for what it's worth. I originally thought this was the car driver's fault, until I found out the biker was going 97mph. Originally when I saw it I didn't even consider he was going that fast as I thought the video was to do with drivers being more considerate to bikers (which I'm for) but 97mph is just ridiculous and puts, not just yourself at risk but others as well. Bikes aren't always easy to see and it might be easy to make a misjudgement when you're not aware someone is going almost 100mph towards you. I'm all for drivers being more considerate for bikers as they are far more vulnerable to getting hurt, even at much slower speeds but this isn't what I took from the video. Slow down. It didn't have to be a bike in this clip, it could easily have been a car and the damage to passengers could have been the same, or worse (both parties could have been killed). If you speed like that then you make yourself more vulnerable to other people's mistakes. Slowing down doesn't get rid of the amount of idiots on the road but at least it gives you a better chance of surviving if it does happen. The whole video freaked me out a little. Watching him just driving and overtaking, and probably loving every minute of it, and then all of a sudden that second when the car pulled out on him and you heard his yelp just freaked me out. You could be gone so quickly. Scary stuff. Ah yes it was careless. The site I read the story on initially, stated it was 'dangerous' but I've looked elsewhere and it seems the guy did admit to the lesser charge after simply 'not seeing the motorcyclist'. This possibly warranted the conviction of careless because a witness behind the car did see the motorcyclist from further away. If the driver saw the rider but believed he had enough time to cross based on the premise that he assumed the cyclist was in the speed limit; charges against him may have been dropped. Still harsh to be convicted in such circumstances as the bike was solely the aggravating factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techno 3,493 Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Sorry James I disagre he was convicted because he was in the wrong the biker tho speeding was not the aggravating factor and as I think I said if survived would have got done also because both broke the rules of the road, no matter what you are doing the car driver pulled out in front of the bike, he also said he didn't see the car behind either. I've been driving in the UK for 27 years riding for 15 and this stuff happens a lot that is being pulled out on, we develop a kind of sixth sense for it however the video has been released for one purpose only to highlight what's wrong from BOTH sides because BOTH were in the wrong, You could argue in this case the bikers speed is irrelevant as the driver admitted not seeing him so he could have been doing 60 and still same result. Madjonny 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCA-Paendrag 2,704 Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 I can also debunk the theory that we have no regard for others as obviously we stand a greater chance of harm, fact is even at normal and legal road speeds we still get pulled out on, its how my 125 was destroyed and is known as a smidsy ( sorry mate I didn't see you). One other thing the standard of driving in this country has got steadily worse over the years, just look at the insurance cost increases. I said these kind of riders as I didn`t mean everyone. I would love to get a bike myself (chopper though). BO7H B4RRELS and techno 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J4MES OX4D 9,901 Posted September 7, 2014 Author Share Posted September 7, 2014 Sorry James I disagre he was convicted because he was in the wrong the biker tho speeding was not the aggravating factor and as I think I said if survived would have got done also because both broke the rules of the road, no matter what you are doing the car driver pulled out in front of the bike, he also said he didn't see the car behind either. I've been driving in the UK for 27 years riding for 15 and this stuff happens a lot that is being pulled out on, we develop a kind of sixth sense for it however the video has been released for one purpose only to highlight what's wrong from BOTH sides because BOTH were in the wrong, You could argue in this case the bikers speed is irrelevant as the driver admitted not seeing him so he could have been doing 60 and still same result. That's a fair point. Not sure of the reasons as to why he didn't see him but obviously wasn't enough to convince them not to prosecute. Tragic situation all round techno 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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