50% of Female marines fail basic fitness test

[cyberninja2601 1,103]

According to this story more than 50% of Female marines fail their basic fitness test.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/marines-delay-female-fitness-plan-half-fail-203830967--politics.html

 

3 Pull-ups isn't a particularly difficult task for someone who is supposed to earn a living by being ready for combat in my opinion. It's also a test that scales well based on your own body weight and size.

 

I wounder how their male counter parts feel about having solders who can perform physically.

 

Personally I've never had a problem with women wanting to have a career in something that requires physical strength but they have to meet the same standards that a man does if the want to do the same jobs that men have traditionally done. 

 

How would they get one of their troops to safety during combat if they aren't strong enough for example. 

[Docwagon 856]

The Army doesn't have a pull up test, and we've been doing just fine in combat for centuries.

 

Pullups =/= equal combat readiness.

[cyberninja2601 1,103]

Do you have another test that replaces it? I'm pretty sure that there are some physical combat readiness tests for the army as well.

 

The marines seem to like that one because it is a show of upper body strength.

 

Also it's one think to not do the test, it's something else to have a group that doesn't meet the minimum standard.

 

I know that the police and fire fighters here have a fitness test. I wouldn't want one that didn't pass to be the one assign to try to get me out of a burning building or car.

[spectre 633]

In the Army, it is push-ups, sit-ups and 2 mile run.  In my opinion, being able to pull up your own weight is a better judge of fitness than doing push-ups and sit-ups.  Having to pull up your own weight (or another person) actually might save your life, depending on the situation. 

 

Women have no business being in infantry units, on the front lines, or being put in positions in which they might have to engage in combat. Not only are they psychologically less capable, but they also mess with the morale of the troops, undermine the cohesion of the unit and generally just fuck everything up.  They are constantly reminding everyone about sex. That's just what women do. The way they talk, the way they act, everything.  I saw it first hand.  And when you don't acknowledge their approaches, but instead try to remain professional, they act like something is wrong with you.  They are perpetual children.  Are there exceptions to this; of course.  But for the most part, they need to be in the rear with the gear.  Men and women are not equal. Instead of trying to treat everyone equally, we should instead be catering to the strength of each sex and their traditional roles that have been set for most of human history. 

[Docwagon 856]

Do you have another test that replaces it? I'm pretty sure that there are some physical combat readiness tests for the army as well.

 

The marines seem to like that one because it is a show of upper body strength.

 

Also it's one think to not do the test, it's something else to have a group that doesn't meet the minimum standard.

 

I know that the police and fire fighters here have a fitness test. I wouldn't want one that didn't pass to be the one assign to try to get me out of a burning building or car.

 

The minimum standard already varies based on age.  A 25 year old doesn't have to conform to the same standards as an 18 year old.  A 31 year old doesn't have to conform to the same standards as a 25 year old, etc.

 

The PT test exists not because its the best or because it shows combat readiness.  It exists because it is easy to administer, easy to score, easy to record, and that is all favorable to a giant bureaucracy like the military.  It is, in many ways, arbitrary.  Passing the PT test does not mean you can effectively do your job, and neither does not passing the PT test.   When I was in, there were plenty of medics who passed their PT test but couldn't deadlift my 220lb ass out of a tank hatch.  If I was hurt in my tank, they were useless.  I don't give a shit if some 145 lb person can do 12 pullups, they probably can't haul me where I need to go if I'm critically injured.  Nor could they carry as much ammo as me, nor could they hump a 80 lb ruck as long as me.  You know why?  Because I was 220 lbs and pretty nicely muscled through the back and legs, and an extra 80 doesn't matter that much to me, its a smaller percentage of my weight.  I wasn't a SAW gunner because I was the highest PT score, I was the SAW gunner because I was the biggest motherfucker in the squad.

 

If they really wanted to, they would implement job specific PT tests.  Other than simplicity, it makes no sense for a cook to have to have the same upper body strength as a bridge engineer.  A spatula doesn't weigh as much as a Bailey Bridge piece.

 

Its ridiculous to say an 18 year old isn't combat ready because (s)he can't do the same number of some repetitive exercise as "they" say (s)he should, but if that same person was 30 they'd pass.  Is combat easier for people who are older?  No, its the same fucking combat.

 

(Now here's where some folks will say, "well, 30 year olds tend to be in leadership or admin positions, so let's stomp those arguments before they start)

 

1) PT standards are the same for enlisted and officers.  Officers are *always* in leadership or admin positions.

2) Enlisted men in leadership positions still are on the tip of the spear.  Sergeants and staff sergeants especially are right there with their squads and are as much in the mix as the lowliest private.

3) Not everyone enlists at 18.  There are 30 year old newbies.

 

 

In short, gym performance is not real world performance, but is used because its simple to administer, grade, and record.

[lepercolony 275]

You know why?  Because I was 220 lbs and pretty nicely muscled through the back and legs, and an extra 80 doesn't matter that much to me, its a smaller percentage of my weight.  I wasn't a SAW gunner because I was the highest PT score, I was the SAW gunner because I was the biggest motherfucker in the squad.

 

is it getting hot in here or is it just me.

[OTC Mike 53]

 

I wasn't a SAW gunner because I was the highest PT score, I was the SAW gunner because I was the biggest motherfucker in the squad.

 

That's funny, because in the Marine Corps the SAW gunner is the bitch of the infantry team...they put the biggest guys with the heavy machine guns. You know, the M2 or the MK19.

Just busting on ya Doc (though I am telling the truth)

[Dr Diamond 407]

The problem with things like pull ups and push ups , is that they show the relative strength between different people, not the absolutes. sure, you might be 100lbs and can do 50 press ups and 30 chin ups , but you would probably struggle to carry a 200lbs guy 100m over rough terrain.


 

 

 
 
That's funny, because in the Marine Corps the SAW gunner is the bitch of the infantry team...they put the biggest guys with the heavy machine guns. You know, the M2 or the MK19.

Just busting on ya Doc (though I am telling the truth)

 

wait, what, one of these ?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_19_grenade_launcher

[cyberninja2601 1,103]

Well part of the test is that you can pull your ass into/out of the tank or over a wall or a rope ladder if you had to. These type of activities would have to be more common for infantry types than someone riding a vehicle. 

 

If you can't do 3 pull ups with your body weight I have to think climbing over a 6 foot wall with battle gear on is going to be pretty difficult regardless of your size. 

 

I'm quite aware of the bigger your are usually the stronger you are. My 5'3" wife who is more fit than me can't come close to what I can lift or carry because I weight over 100 lbs more than she does. I'm pretty sure however that she could get up a rope or over a wall as fast if not faster than I can. I would think that counts for something when someone might shoot you if you don't do that fast enough

[OTC Mike 53]

 

wait, what, one of these ?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_19_grenade_launcher

 

Yep. One of those

[Docwagon 856]

 

 

That's funny, because in the Marine Corps the SAW gunner is the bitch of the infantry team...they put the biggest guys with the heavy machine guns. You know, the M2 or the MK19.

Just busting on ya Doc (though I am telling the truth)

 

I was a Combat Engineer, we didn't carry the M2 or MK19.  We had one Mk19 per platooon, and it was mounted on the LT's track (Yeah, I know).  Our tracks were M113's, and had the M2 mounted.  The SAW was the heaviest weapon we transported by hand.  Most of our load out was explosives.  They get heavy fast.  A typical cratering charge weighs 40 lbs.

 

I guess my point was this.  Not everyone can do every job, and the PT tests don't reflect that.  Even within the same job, there are multiple tasks required.  In my unit, everyone had the knowledge to do everything we were required to do, but some people's build just made them better suited for different tasks.  I was never the guy stringing the main line to clear a mine field, because that's best done by a sprinter, and the smaller the guy the better.  I was almost always one of the guys on a recon team to scout a bridge for demolition because I could carry lots of gear over long distances and since the teams are very small (2-3 guys), having the SAW was a huge increase in firepower.  It would be stupid to have me stringing main line, because I'm a slow sprinter and a large target.  It would be stupid to have the little guy recon, because he's going to get tired carrying 80lbs of shit over 15km.

[OTC Mike 53]

 

I was a Combat Engineer, we didn't carry the M2 or MK19.  We had one Mk19 per platooon, and it was mounted on the LT's track (Yeah, I know).  Our tracks were M113's, and had the M2 mounted.  The SAW was the heaviest weapon we transported by hand.  Most of our load out was explosives.  They get heavy fast.  A typical cratering charge weighs 40 lbs.

 

I guess my point was this.  Not everyone can do every job, and the PT tests don't reflect that.  Even within the same job, there are multiple tasks required.  In my unit, everyone had the knowledge to do everything we were required to do, but some people's build just made them better suited for different tasks.  I was never the guy stringing the main line to clear a mine field, because that's best done by a sprinter, and the smaller the guy the better.  I was almost always one of the guys on a recon team to scout a bridge for demolition because I could carry lots of gear over long distances and since the teams are very small (2-3 guys), having the SAW was a huge increase in firepower.  It would be stupid to have me stringing main line, because I'm a slow sprinter and a large target.  It would be stupid to have the little guy recon, because he's going to get tired carrying 80lbs of shit over 15km.

 

I know man, I was just busting on you for being in the Army...The guys who "carried" the M2 and Mk19 mounted them on vehicles as well. But when we went on hikes, they were carried. Carried in pieces and spread around, but carried non the less.

Combat engineers have alot to carry. We had a few attached to my platoon when I was in Iraq.

[Docwagon 856]

 

 

I know man, I was just busting on you for being in the Army

 

I know, I was just breaking it down Barney style so the Marines could understand...

[OTC Mike 53]

 

I know, I was just breaking it down Barney style so the Marines could understand...

 

Ouch. That hurts man. At least I was one of the "smart" grunts. I was an 0351 - Assaultman. Part of my duty was doing some demo work. Not nearly to the extent of CE's though. But I've built a shape charge or two in my time. If you want a funny story - ask me how I tested positive for exposives at the San Diego Airport...

[cyberninja2601 1,103]

... how did you test positive for explosive at the San Diego Airport

 

"I'm a Marine dam it, I shit C4" !?  

 

I had to play along

[Docwagon 856]

 

 

Ouch. That hurts man. At least I was one of the "smart" grunts. I was an 0351 - Assaultman. Part of my duty was doing some demo work. Not nearly to the extent of CE's though. But I've built a shape charge or two in my time. If you want a funny story - ask me how I tested positive for exposives at the San Diego Airport...

 

Do tell...

[OTC Mike 53]

Ok. So here's the story.

I was still in the Marines at the time, and like I mentioned earlier, part of my job was dealing with explosives. The day before I was to go on leave for Thanksgiving we had a day at the demo range. It was a fun day - who can say that a day blowing up shit for no reason isn't fun. So, as one might guess, we used the standard Grunt explosives. C4 and Det cord. I remember at one point we were standing around a table building something (probably a shape charge) and had some det cord left over. Well, like any good Marine, we wanted to investigate it some more, so we cut it open to see what was inside. For those that don't know, inside det cord (or more formally detonation cord) is nothing but explsoive powder. Either RDX or Petin - I can't quite remember. And like the smart Marines are played with it for a bit.

So, that sounds like no big deal right. Get a a little explosive powder on your hands - wash it off. Well...since I was going on leave the next day, when we got back to the barracks the first thing I wanted to do was pack. So I did...before showering. Needless to say some of the expolosives transfered from my hands to my clothes.

Did I mention that tt was right before the Thanksgiving right after 9/11. If you traveled around that time you should remember the intense checks you had to go through before you boarded a plane. They had (and I've still seen from time to time) these little wands with a piece of cloth on them that they rubbed all over you luggage and anything inside your luggage.

So, they proceeded to stick the cloth inside the machine that detects explosives, and uh...yeah...the machine started to flash red lights and blink and all sort of crap that basically labeled me as a terrorist.

The woman running the machine nearly had a heart attack and literally says to me "wait right there while I get my supervisor."

Seriously? Some dude test positive for a number of explosives and you tell him to wait there...Well, I did since I could completely explain myself, but seriously?!?!

I ended up talking with her supervisor and explained what the situation was and give him the number to the CO. He called and confirmed my story, but not before going through my entire suitcase, every shirt pocket, inside every sock, turning everything inside and out.

They ended up letting me board the plane but for about the next 7 or 8 years, everytime I went through security, I ended up in the "random" extra screening area....wonder why

[OTC Mike 53]

Double post

[Uncle Dangle 22]

This post was both awesome and hilarious.  I'm still dumbfounded that no one on here went apeshit over Spectre's comments.

 

[spectre 633]

This post was both awesome and hilarious.  I'm still dumbfounded that no one on here went apeshit over Spectre's comments.

 

 

they just ignore me now.