Weapon Update incoming

[L_C_Scipio 395]

https://www.bungie.net/7_Destiny-Weapon-Tuning/en/News/News?aid=12557

From the desk of Sandbox Designer Jon Weisnewski:

Hello, Guardians.

What you’re about to read is a heads-up about some upcoming changes to the weapons in Destiny, scheduled to go live in February with Update 1.1.1. This is the result of listening to feedback from the community, observation of players in the wild, poring over user research data, and regular internal playtests.

Many of these changes are subtle. It may take a little while to feel the nuanced differences, or you may feel the changes immediately. It all depends on how you play. This is an opportunity to change up your combat strategy in new ways, and/or double down in the areas that still feel good to you.

AUTO RIFLES

It’s our goal for the Auto Rifle to be a visceral, close-to-medium range chainsaw. It should reward target tracking, and drop in effectiveness at longer ranges. Looking at raw DPS [damage per second], the Auto Rifle is the most lethal primary weapon class across all of Destiny’s activities.

Here’s a breakdown of kills by Primary archetype for the top players [filtered to focus on the top-half of the scoreboard] in Destiny.

That’s not just Suros. If you look at the top ten lethal weapons over a period of thirty days, six of them are Auto Rifles. Note the spike in SUROS starting on 1/13 - likely due to the Iron Banner Auto Rifle bounty. The ratios stay relatively consistent for non-Suros autos when Iron Banner is not in session.

It’s extremely effective in most combat scenarios and engagement distances. In fact, it is so effective that it’s intended role in the Primary family is being partially obscured. We want you to be able to deliver a steady stream of precision damage with an Auto Rifle, and you still can, but you’ll need to get a little bit closer.

Goals:

Auto Rifle is optimal at close to medium range

Damage, Stability, and Range are tuned such that players desire Stability for reliable close quarters damage, or Range for better accuracy at a distance

Changes:

Reduce base damage of Auto Rifles by 2.5% (averaged across Rate of Fire stats, higher RoF took less of a reduction than low RoF)

Reduce effective range values so that damage falloff and accuracy are a stronger factor in combat decisions

Range reduction is less severe in the higher stat values, so now your range stat is more critical to long distance engagements

PULSE RIFLES

The Pulse Rifle is the spiritual middle ground between full-auto and semi-auto weapons, delivering lethal bursts at a forced pace. The right combat rhythm rewards both target tracking and precision shooting.

Here are those same graphs again:

Pulse Rifles are currently the least used across all of the Tower’s warriors. We want to push these weapons to become a more compelling choice.

Goals:

Pulse Rifle is optimal at medium range, but can still effectively harass enemies at close or long range distances

Rate of Fire sets a pace for players to both track moving targets, and then deliver precision damage in bursts

Changes:

Increase base damage of Pulse Rifles by 9.7%. DPS is now more in line with other primaries

HAND CANNONS

Hand Cannons are intended to be the ideal weapon for precision-minded players on the move. Our goal is that they are ideal at close to medium range. They reward the calm hand that can pace shots under chaotic combat situations. The rounds hit like a truck so you shouldn’t need to fire fast to be effective.

Right now, the Hand Cannons work as advertised, but they’re a little too effective at longer ranges. We’re finding that players get very comfortable hanging back and using the Hand Cannon like a Scout Rifle or a Sniper Rifle. With these new changes, you can still hit targets at long range, but the shots need to be paced out and the damage will be lower until you close in on your target.

Goals:

Hand Cannon is optimal at medium range

Hand Cannon is optimal when shots are paced, becomes less effective when fired quickly

Rewards agility when under fire, precision targeting, and snap shots

Changes:

Reduce effective range

Damage falloff starts closer to the shooter, and follow up shots are less accurate at long ranges

Slight reduction to initial accuracy

This is unnoticeable at close to medium range, but underscores the range intentions when used from far away

FUSION RIFLES

Fusion Rifles are one of the most contentious weapons in the PvP arena right now. They’ve been largely untouched since Destiny launched and it has been great to watch the community slowly adopt these weapons and understand how to use them effectively. Currently, they are the most hotly unliked weapon to be killed by. On the other end of the feedback spectrum, they are supremely satisfying guns to kill with.

It is pretty easy to find and build a Fusion Rifle that can push the range limits and land one hit kills and/or massive damage from pretty far away. Furthermore, in The Crucible it is not difficult to depend on a steady stream of special ammo so that players rarely have to pick and choose the right time to use this weapon. Our changes address these issues and leave the overall feel and function of Fusion Rifles intact.

Goals:

Fusion Rifles are optimal at mid-range, where targets are easier to track but they’re not close enough to attack while you charge up

Requires combat foresight and the ability to predict a target’s movement to use successfully

Changes:

Blast pattern on a Fusion Rifle burst cone is a little wider

Close to medium range volleys are largely unaffected, but at a distance the projectiles are less likely to land hits on a single target

This reduces the reliability of landing a one hit kill at far range, and makes the weapon better at spreading damage into a group

Initial starting ammo is reduced across all ammo stats. This is change primarily affects The Crucible

Starting a Crucible match, you’ll have less Fusion Rifle ammo in reserve

In PvE activities we persistently track your ammo. We only use initial ammo values if you are logging in for the first time, or starting a Crucible match

SHOTGUNS

Shotguns are the close quarters king. These are the weapons you need to eliminate anything that is directly in your face. The role of the Shotgun has been well established in the shooter genre for a long time now. For Destiny, we have some interesting data from the field: A very high amount of players use Shotguns in PvP, and almost no one uses them in PvE.

In PvE activities, the reward of a close quarters Shotgun attack on any non-grunt enemy doesn’t give you enough of a damage spike to warrant using this weapon. Like the Fusion Rifles, in the Crucible it’s not difficult to find a Shotgun that is very lethal at some unexpected ranges. Some of the higher range values have been pulled in to help eliminate long distance Guardian one shots. We’ve also seen that the Crucible ammo economy allows for players to use Shotguns with wild abandon. So, like the Fusion Rifle, we’ve made a reduction to initial starting ammo.

Goals:

Shotgun is the most optimal at very close range

Complements melee attacks and other close quarters class builds

Offensively closing on an enemy with a Shotgun is a risk/reward timing game

Changes:

Increase damage by 2x (100%) against all non-Guardian combatants (aliens)

Reduce high end range values - damage falloff starts sooner, so Crucible players with long range shotguns need to be a little closer for successful one hit kills

(Like the Fusion Rifle) Initial starting ammo is reduced across all ammo stats in the Crucible:

Starting a Crucible match, you’ll have less Shotgun ammo in reserve

In PvE activities we persistently track your ammo

We only use initial ammo values if you are logging in for the first time, or starting a Crucible match

SCOUT RIFLE, SNIPER RIFLE, HEAVY MACHINEGUN, ROCKET LAUNCHER

For the most part, these weapons have not been changed as a part of this update. However, changes to the Destiny arsenal mean that untouched weapons may now seem different in side by side comparisons. You may discover new reasons to start using some of these weapons as part of your combat strategy.

"Why did you “nerf” my favorite weapon? Why not make the other ones better and leave mine alone?"

Good question! Here’s why: We pay close attention to kill times in all game modes against all combatant types. If we brought up all the other weapons to account for lethality spikes that occur in specific situations, then our TTK (time to kill) would get faster with every patch. It is important to us to keep TTK values such that your arsenal feels lethal, but also both allows for some drama while you fight, and creates opportunities for counter-play when you’re being attacked.

One of the great things about working on this game is how players continually change our understanding of how the game plays. We have an evolving tennis match of serves and returns. As always, we’ll be watching and listening. Keep the feedback coming.

Your ball.

[DarkArch3typ3 58]

I saw that just now. Ghallajhorn wings are going to get clipped. It has been untouched and now will get a nerf.

If that happens than I am going to have to hang up my cup.

[L_C_Scipio 395]

I saw that just now. Ghallajhorn wings are going to get clipped. It has been untouched and now will get a nerf.

If that happens than I am going to have to hang up my cup.

There's no reason for it to get nerfed.

[Sennex 1,903]

The pulse rifle change isn't compelling at all. The AR change is sort of, but I expect they will err on the side of caution which means a nerf.

 

Honestly what they need to do here is make AR's, Scout, and Pulse Rifles all the same "weapon" class, and all fire selection to take place.

[techno 3,510]

All this almost unnecessary crap but no way to upgrade legendaries well done bungie...

[L_C_Scipio 395]

Looking forward to trying out shotguns after a much-needed buff. Time to dust off the Invective...

[Ryan Pedro 0]

All this almost unnecessary crap but no way to upgrade legendaries well done bungie...

 

agreed...

 

and the whole nerfing weapons to "create drama" fighting bosses, etc is a total dick BS move by Bungie... all they are doing is trying to stretch out the boss fights, as if they aren't long enough already... If I didn't love the game overall, I would have quit a long time ago, Bungie says they are listening... but are they really??? and that Deej guy is a fucking toolbag... he has no clue what the hell the community wants... "community manager" yeah ok right... sign me up for that joke of a job...

[L_C_Scipio 395]

You realize Deej has no say in what actually happens, right?

[Ryan Pedro 0]

You realize Deej has no say in what actually happens, right?

 

well duh... obviously he is a Bungie muppet... absolutely useless... like most of them... makes me wonder if they really do play... and if they do, they must have the same issues we all have...

[L_C_Scipio 395]

well duh... obviously he is a Bungie muppet... absolutely useless... like most of them... makes me wonder if they really do play... and if they do, they must have the same issues we all have...

So how are you going to blame him when it's not his fault?

[Ryan Pedro 0]

So how are you going to blame him when it's not his fault?

 

he is the COMMUNITY manager... he needs to do his job and represent the COMMUNITY... he may not be able to make the changes, etc we want... but he needs to speak up and at least push them to improve the flaws and mistakes made in the game...

[Ryan Pedro 0]

plus, it's a lot of fun blaming that pompous toolbag... listen to his interviews... you will have to agree...

[TigerBurge 2,375]

Personally I think they have done a really good job listening to the community. They have addressed many issues concerning weapon imbalance. A good team can use any gun to kill bosses. Me,Jason and Tommy ran Undying Mind using unleveled No Land Beyond and shot guns. They can buff or nerf whatever they want and it doesn't matter to me. Fixing the bugs in the raid I'd my biggest issue not weapons.

My only complaint is your old legendary weapons are quickly becoming obsolete. I wish you could upgrade them to the new damage.

Deej is a community manager not a developer. He just relays the message to is and the dev team. Think he's bad look at some of the others for other games. They are horrible. I think he does one hell of a job honestly

[JsinOwl 644]

I think Ryan's point, and I agree, is that he is the face of Bungie to the community rather than the face of the community to Bungie. In reality, he's both, but whenth he interacts with the community he tries to put the best possible spin on everything Bungie does. The community wants to feel like they have someone on their side, who will fight aggressively for their interests. Deej does not install that confidence. He comes across as a Bungie stooge, which is probably not his fault, I'm sure he's doing what his managers want him to do.

[Ryan Pedro 0]

I think Ryan's point, and I agree, is that he is the face of Bungie to the community rather than the face of the community to Bungie. In reality, he's both, but whenth he interacts with the community he tries to put the best possible spin on everything Bungie does. The community wants to feel like they have someone on their side, who will fight aggressively for their interests. Deej does not install that confidence. He comes across as a Bungie stooge, which is probably not his fault, I'm sure he's doing what his managers want him to do.

 

ding, ding, ding, we have a winner here folks... give this guy a cookie...

[Stretch616 697]

It's a poisones chalice to be honest. If he did things one way alot of the community would hate him, if he did it another they'd still hate him.

For what it's worth i couldn't give a shit about the guy. And as much as we bitch abouy communication, name any other game that gives a weekly update to it's community (sparse as it is, it's still there).

The buffs/nerfs are just a natural progression on any MMO style game. If they are doing it you at least know they are looking at the data and doing something with. By doing this it's an admission they know the game isn't perfect.

I think most of the frustration lies on what this game could be. I'm more than happy to give them the patience and time (see what i did there;)) to do it

[TigerBurge 2,375]

It's a poisones chalice to be honest. If he did things one way alot of the community would hate him, if he did it another they'd still hate him.

For what it's worth i couldn't give a shit about the guy. And as much as we bitch abouy communication, name any other game that gives a weekly update to it's community (sparse as it is, it's still there).

The buffs/nerfs are just a natural progression on any MMO style game. If they are doing it you at least know they are looking at the data and doing something with. By doing this it's an admission they know the game isn't perfect.

I think most of the frustration lies on what this game could be. I'm more than happy to give them the patience and time (see what i did there;)) to do it

This guy gets it.

[Sennex 1,903]

It's a poisones chalice to be honest. If he did things one way alot of the community would hate him, if he did it another they'd still hate him.

For what it's worth i couldn't give a shit about the guy. And as much as we bitch abouy communication, name any other game that gives a weekly update to it's community (sparse as it is, it's still there).

The buffs/nerfs are just a natural progression on any MMO style game. If they are doing it you at least know they are looking at the data and doing something with. By doing this it's an admission they know the game isn't perfect.

I think most of the frustration lies on what this game could be. I'm more than happy to give them the patience and time (see what i did there;)) to do it

 

 

This guy gets it.

 

Both these guys get it.

 

Maybe its because I have been playing MMO's for about 15 years now, but yea, so far this guys has been doing a bang up job in regards to every other MMO company out there.

 

If the game was better, we would care less about finding someone to bitch at

[Sennex 1,903]

Shotguns:

 

This guys post on reddit is 100% accurate:

 

 

Bungie doesn't "get" why shotguns will never be good in PVE (self.DestinyTheGame)

submitted 8 hours ago * by omniwnk []

You could up their damage by a cabillion and still, no one is going to use them.

 

Why?

 

Because damage output by enemies in this game is insane. In Nightfalls, you can't even afford moving from cover to cover and actually playing the game because one enemy can kill you in 2-3 shots. The fact that no one leaves the original room in Omnigul's strike, or even ventures out into Omnigul's room at the end is a glaring issue.

 

In general PVE, most boss encounters have some kind of mechanic where they "stomp" if you get up close in shotgun range. This usually one-shots you, and is beyond stupid. GG shotguns.

 

In the raid, you bumped the enemies up to level 33. This increases the damage we take by a ridiculous amount. You honestly think anyone is going to risk getting close to a witch/knight/ogre/shrieker to hit them with a shotgun, when each can kill you in seconds? In a mode where you can't be ressed as well?

 

And hard mode Crota...the epitome of anti-shotgun design. Are we really supposed to jump up onto Crota's platform being bombarded by boomers while our health never regens? Where his melee attack 1-shots you? You're kidding, right?

 

Simply put, the way the game is designed, the only real way to play endgame PVE content is to constantly hide behind cover and peek out to take pot shots at range. If you want to make shotguns viable, tone down damage output by enemies SIGNIFICANTLY, while adding new mechanics that make them difficult in different/more interesting ways (something like giving enemies a super bar so you have priority targets and a limited time to kill them before taking dangerous amounts of damage).

 

Until then, shotguns will forever be worthless in PVE.

[DarkArch3typ3 58]

I agree about the shotgun. They should at least be similar to the fusion where the shots are coned. A shotgun shouldn't be limited to killing one enemy. If enemies are grouped together you should at least take out two.

That would make the shotgun more viable in pve situations, imo.

[Sennex 1,903]

Yea, shotguns should be an AOE style weapon.

[TigerBurge 2,375]

Saw this on reddit and thought it was funny. Title was Destiny weapon balancing

[DarkArch3typ3 58]

Lol!

[Sennex 1,903]

Saw that, the comments about a nerf gun that can be fired in the Tower would be awesome