Doc's firearms thread

[BO7H B4RRELS 2,453]

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Home/4th-Of-July-Shooting-Gear%7C/pc/105625080/c/107969580/Ruger174-BX-258482-Magazine/1229746.uts?avad=48247_f502b86f&WT.mc_id=al35987&rid=12&WT.tsrc=AFF

 

$21.99 for Ruger BX-25 mags for the 10-22.  I'm probaby going to pick up two myself.

Awesome, thanks man!

[JsinOwl 644]

You've never mentioned Glocks Doc, I assume there's a good reason? As a noob from a distance, my impression has always been Glocks are where it's at.

[Playertd 177]

Love your post's, always good info and worth reading.

 

Ok so I've been shooting my glock 22 for a while now, really like it, BUT the trigger absolutely sucks...I didn't realize how much I hate it until I tried another glock, his trigger felt 10 times better than mine, it was lighter, more crisp break, just all around better. Looking back I don't know why I didn't ask what kind of trigger job he had, ohh well that's what you're for!

 

In your OP you say a ghost connector improves it a lot, I went to their website and have no idea what one would be best, also I need to lower my trigger weight...it's at 10 pounds right now. I use this gun for target practice and a bed side bump in the night gun, I don't plan on using it as a carry gun or anything else. What trigger set up would you recommend? (I want a lighter pull, just don't know what an ideal weight would be)

[Docwagon 856]

You've never mentioned Glocks Doc, I assume there's a good reason? As a noob from a distance, my impression has always been Glocks are where it's at.

 

Mmm, yes, Glocks.  I'll do a write up on my Glock 22 that I've been having modified, but for now I'll give my overview of the Glock lineup.

 

In full disclosure, I don't like Glock.  They don't fit my hand all that well, the grip angle is not what I prefer, and the trigger isn't to my liking.  I *can* shoot a Glock reasonably well, I'm just not as fast or as accurate as I am with my favorites.  Its not a matter of familiarity, I've got thousands of rounds through Glocks thanks to it being my issued weapon with the PD.  I am currently working on a little project I'm calling "Make my Glock shootable" in an attempt to overcome my objections, though.  I've got a Glock 22 that I bought back from the PD when we went to the Gen 4 Glocks and I've had a trigger job done and installed a grip force adapter that changes the grip angle.  Sights are up next.

 

Glocks are marketed as being extremely reliable.  This is true.  However the gap between Glock and every other modern quality pistol is pretty low in real use.  I've got about tens of thousands of rounds through a hand full of handguns combined (CZ, Springfield, Sig) with never a malfunction with factory ammunition.  However Glocks are very tolerant of misuse and neglect.  I'm not the kind of person who never lubes his pistol or drops it in a mud puddle and then just shakes it out, but they exist, and Glocks will continue to run longer under those conditions than many others.

 

Glocks are "combat accurate".  They aren't target guns.  Because of their looser tolerances, they just won't hold as good a group as a tighter gun.  For me, I can keep all my shots with a full sized Glock in a circle the size of a basketball at 25 yards.  With my GP100 I can hold them in a circle the size of a baseball.  Functional difference in a self defense shooting?  Not much, either circle is still all in a human sized target's chest.  Note that the Glock is capable of better groups, as I said it doesn't fit me that well, but even the best Glock shooter is never going to hold the same group as a similarly skilled 1911 shooter, target revolver shooter, etc.  The slightly sloppy accuracy is a tradeoff resulting from looser tolerances in the name of reliability when full of goo or improperly lubricated or using lousy ammo, etc. etc.

 

Glocks are a true family of weapons.  Magazines interchange from the bigger framed pistols in a given caliber to the smaller ones.  If your primary pistol is a Glock 22, you can use a Glock 27 as your back up, and all of your G22 magazines will also feed your G27.  If your primary is out of the fight, you aren't also facing reduced ammo capacity.  The trigger and grip feel is same-same across the lineup (obviously small frames will have shorter grips and won't be the EXACT same, but if you like one Glock, you'll like them all).

 

Glocks are easy to take down and clean, the finish is tough, the polymer frame can't rust, and they truly will take a beating.

 

Glocks are relatively inexpensive, especially for the quality that you get.

 

Glocks have no thumb safety and are simple to learn to use properly.

 

 

Now, the downside of Glocks:

 

With the factory barrel, you can't shoot lead reloads.  The type of rifling they use will fill with lead, causing the Glock to explode.  Seriously.  This is what started the "Glock grenade" jokes, early on people didn't realize this.  The Glock does not have a fully supported chamber, it has polygonal rifling, and both of these things are bad for reloaders.  If you don't care if your brass has a little bulge in it and you never shoot lead bullets (most factory ammo is copper jacketed) then you don't need to worry about this.

 

The trigger isn't that good.  This is something of a gun snob comment, but it *does* impact your ability to shoot well.  The Glock trigger creeps, its gritty, it stacks, and it has quite a bit of over travel.  The reset is on the long side.  Gen 3 and 4 are a bit smoother than the earlier Glocks (at least Gen 2, I've never shot an original Gen 1 Glock), but still aren't what I would consider a good trigger.  The ONLY major brand polymer pistol with a worse factory trigger, IMO, is the Smith & Wesson M&P lineup (excluding the Shield, which uses a different trigger system than the full sized M&Ps).  This can be overcome with aftermarket trigger components and a trigger job by a competent gun smith.  Note I said competent.  Again, due to looseness of tolerances, Glocks need a bit of massaging.  The guy who did my trigger tried 5 trigger groups before he found the one my Glock liked best, then polished everything and hand fitted it.

 

The grip is pretty fat.  The newest Glocks (Gen 4) have backstraps that come off and can be replaced, but you can't really make it much thinner.  If you have smaller hands or just don't like the fat grip feel, there's nothing you can do about it.  Unless you are willing to grind the polymer down, you can't change the finger grooves.  Glocks are not very customizable for the individual, but this is true of most polymer pistols.

 

You have to pull the trigger to break the gun down.  The slide won't come off otherwise.  You SHOULD ALWAYS MAKE SURE ANY FIREARM IS EMPTY BEFORE CLEANING, but the Glock is very unforgiving of breaking this rule.  Its the only "not newbie friendly" aspect of the firearm.

 

I also don't like the grip angle.  Glock fanbois will go on and on about how its not that different and a few degrees of angle don't make any difference.  It might not TO THEM, however the Glock does not natually point for me.  I have to bring my wrists further down than where they naturally want to go when I point or I will shoot high.  Not enough to miss at 10-20 yards, but the group does start working its way up the target.  Why does this matter?  Speed.  A gun that you naturally point is faster to aim and faster to get back on target.  Natural pointing varies greatly from individual to individual, so this may or may not apply to you.

 

Summary:

 

Glocks really are good guns.  They do everything well, they are newbie friendly, they are deep into "good enough" territory for experienced shooters in deadly situations.  They are cost effective, they are training effective (as practicing with one translates well into practicing with any of them), they are maintenance effective (little down time in stripping and cleaning). 

 

*I* just don't care for them because they aren't the best fit for me.  I'm to the point in my shooting skill levels that I'm looking to shave tenths of a second off my times.  I *need* a gun that works naturally with me.  Would I trust a Glock to protect my life with?  Absolutely.  I do every time I'm back in uniform for a detail, as I have to carry the issued Glock in those circumstances.  Its always in my trunk in my callout bag, along with a full duty belt, uniform, boots, etc.  Would I prefer it?  No.  For the simple reason I'm tenths of a second faster and inches more accurate with my Sig, and in a gun fight I want every advantage I can get.

[JsinOwl 644]

Wow, question answered.

 

So the PD won't let you use a different sidearm while in uniform, despite being more effective with it? How does that make any sense?

[Docwagon 856]

Wow, question answered.

 

So the PD won't let you use a different sidearm while in uniform, despite being more effective with it? How does that make any sense?

 

Weapon policies on bigger departments rarely make sense, as the rules tend to be made by committee and have the inherent biases of multiple members.  We can't carry 1911s at all, for example, because "Mr. Liability" thinks they have a higher chance of negligent discharges due to the single action.  Never mind that the 1911 has a thumb safety and grip safety where the Glock has no external safety if your finger is on the trigger.  Prior to the merger, some deputies were ISSUED 1911's, and were grandfathered in for a bit, but then that exemption went away.  They were supposed to offer a special course for anyone wanting to carry single action, but after 7 years its never materialized and probably won't until a certain someone retires.

 

Some will tell you its for ammo exchange.  That if a major SHTF situation occurs, officers can share magazines.  I then point out that this simply never happens.  If we're down to exchanging magazines or scavenging from downed officers, somebody better be coming with the long guns because we're in deeeeep shit.  The far more likely scenario is 3-5 shots against one target.  I'd rather be prepared the best I can be for the most likely scenario instead of the least.

 

Some will tell you its because lots of cops aren't 'gun guys' and are better served with the simple, hard to dick up, all around OK Glock.  This is likely true, but shouldn't preclude those of us who don't fall into that category from carrying something else.  Detectives can carry anything they can qualify with (within the guidelines) and the majority just keep carrying the issued Glock or a smaller version of the issued Glock.  Two guys in my office (counting me) carry a Sig.  The Lt sometimes carries a S&W Model 60, but lately has been carrying a Glock.  My sgt carries a Glock 27 (smaller version of the Glock 22).  I think everyone else carries the issued Glock 22.

 

In the end, its that way because that's the rules and it works fine for most officers.

 

Our plain clothes/off duty/backup gun firearms policy is:

 

Maximum barrel length: 5"

Caliber: .380 to .45, any caliber in between is fine.  Note this is somewhat open to interpretation as to what "in between" means.  So far they've simply said .45 is the maximum diameter.  If you want to qualify a .44 magnum, you can.

Reliability:  Firearm must pass an armorer inspection and be deemed reliable.  

Slide stop:  Semi-automatic pistols must have a slide stop lever.  This is important in clearing certain types of malfunctions.  Few don't have it, the Beretta Nano being the first that comes to mind that is not equipped with one.

[Docwagon 856]

Love your post's, always good info and worth reading.

 

Ok so I've been shooting my glock 22 for a while now, really like it, BUT the trigger absolutely sucks...I didn't realize how much I hate it until I tried another glock, his trigger felt 10 times better than mine, it was lighter, more crisp break, just all around better. Looking back I don't know why I didn't ask what kind of trigger job he had, ohh well that's what you're for!

 

In your OP you say a ghost connector improves it a lot, I went to their website and have no idea what one would be best, also I need to lower my trigger weight...it's at 10 pounds right now. I use this gun for target practice and a bed side bump in the night gun, I don't plan on using it as a carry gun or anything else. What trigger set up would you recommend? (I want a lighter pull, just don't know what an ideal weight would be)

 

Sorry, I missed this post the first go round.

 

Usually I'd recommend around a 5 lb trigger pull for anything you intend to use for self defense.  If you get too much lighter the adrenaline jitters can make you have a bad day.  There's plenty of folks who'll run with a 3.5 lb trigger in a Glock, though.  I'm ok with that light of a trigger in a competition gun or pure target gun, but *personally* I'd be uneasy with any striker fired pistol with that light of a trigger.

 

Trigger weight in a Glock is a combination of connector and spring weight.  A 3.5 lb connector won't drop you to 3.5 lbs by itself, but will lower your weight.  I took mine to a gun smith, shelled out $70, and had him do a full trigger job.  I don't think my knowledge of Glocks' guts is good enough to do it myself, and I wouldn't feel comfortable giving advice to others in that regard other than to take it to a Glock certified armorer/gun smith.

[Playertd 177]

Yeah I wasn't planning on trying a DIY job...I definitely don't have the know how for that, do I order the 5 lb set up, just the connector, or just show up at a gun smith and tell him I want a 5 lb trigger job?

[Docwagon 856]

Yeah I wasn't planning on trying a DIY job...I definitely don't have the know how for that, do I order the 5 lb set up, just the connector, or just show up at a gun smith and tell him I want a 5 lb trigger job?

 

Most smiths will provide their own parts.  I'd stop in at a local gun shop and ask who they recommend to do the work.  Then ask the smith what he offers for your intended use.  You might be happy with just a connector swap, or you may want a full trigger job.  The trigger job I had done eliminated most of the over travel and also shortened the reset quite a bit.  I was frankly astounded by how good it made the Glock trigger feel.

[Playertd 177]

Alright cool, I'll stop by tomorrow and see what they say.

Uhh....why is my computer typing on the right side o.0

[Docwagon 856]

I'm entering new territory with a big caliber rifle.  My center fire rifle experience is primarily the AR-15 platform, followed by the AK, and a little bit of playing around with a .30-30 lever action.  I've never done much long distance work past 300 m.

 

I just picked up a sporterized Springfield 1903a3 .30-06 today.  These rifles are considered extremely accurate.  The rifling and bore are in good condition, and its the more sought after 4 groove barrel, not the 2 groove.  The wood is very nice looking and has a swell for the cheek rest.  I'll get pics up soon.

 

Sporterized = previously issued military weapon converted into a hunting rifle, usually with a change of the stock and the sights, sometimes with the addition of a scope mount.

 

Looks very similar to this, only with a fantastic set of peep sights instead of a scope:

 

[Docwagon 856]

Pics of my new rifle:

 

 

That's kind of dark, but this shows the grain of the wood pretty well:

 

 

and the peep sights:

 

[JsinOwl 644]

That's an odd looking sight. 

[Docwagon 856]

That's an odd looking sight. 

 

Its a precision peep sight.  Keep in mind this baby is going to kick a bit, so you can't get right up on it or you'll hit yourself in the eye.  You need the big disk to block the "not the target" stuff.  You look through the little hole and center the front sight post.  Your eyes will naturally want to center it, so its pretty intuitive.

 

It is fully adjustable for both elevation and windage.  I've got high hopes for it.

[Docwagon 856]

I got to take out the 1903 today, but only at close range and I couldn't really stretch its legs.  Its about 2.5" high at 75-80 yards, so I'm figuring its set to be dead nuts on somewhere around 175, but I'm guessing.  Once I look at a ballistics chart I can figure it out for sure.

 

Prone:

 

 

Sitting:

 

 

With the following results (the circle is about 1.5" across, so you get an idea of scale):

 

 

I had one flier that's just out of the top of the screen on string #1, and you can see I've got one too far right on string #2.  Both were my fault, the gun is capable of much better shooting than me.  The first cartridge I fired was the flier in the first string, and got the target in the "neck".  I wasn't ready for the trigger to break yet, its lighter than I anticipated and while I was taking up the slack...bang!

 

I moved back as far as I could (my wife was being range safety and not letting anyone walk through an opening in the cinder block wall, so no photos) and did some standing shots:

 

 

The one on the right is standing.

 

I can definitely tighten that up as I get used to the gun and put a sling on it to help hold it steady while shooting.

 

Once I get a chance to use my "private range" on my own property I can take it back to 150 yards pretty handily and see how it will do.

[Playertd 177]

Very cool stuff, I've never shot a rifle without a scope, looks like an entirely different experience. Is that peep sight working well or would other open sights do better?

[Docwagon 856]

Very cool stuff, I've never shot a rifle without a scope, looks like an entirely different experience. Is that peep sight working well or would other open sights do better?

 

A more open sight would be less accurate, and probably slower to acquire.  All sights are a trade off, no one design is perfect for everything.  Open sights main "pro" is that they are cheap and very durable.  They aren't particularly accurate, are either non-adjustable or minimally adjustable, and aren't very fast to acquire a sight picture with (with some notable exceptions).

 

Peep sights (aka aperture sights) are both faster (generally) and more accurate.  They also offer a trade off, though.  The bigger the disk in the rear, and the smaller the hole, the more accurate it is.  The smaller the disc and the bigger the hole, the faster it is.  The most open type is a ghost ring, which is very fast to get a sight picture with and to acquire a target with.  However, the larger gap all around the front sight makes it harder to judge and get it centered on both horizontal and vertical planes.  The M-16 still has peep sights, and the rear sight flips to give you a big aperture and a little aperture.  For close quarters, you flip to the big aperture because you want the speed to start putting rounds on a target as fast as possible and are more worried about hits than bull's eye accuracy.  At longer ranges, you need the extra precision afforded by the smaller aperture despite the speed penalty.  IIRC, the Army trained us to flip to small past 50m unless it was dark and then you always use the large aperture because you need more light coming through.

 

Now, there are exceptions to the rule.  There are some very fast open sights out there.  They tend to be horrible on accuracy, though, usually with a very wide and shallow rear "V" type notch and a large ball of a front sight.  These are often on "bush guns", or rifles made to take down dangerous wild game in a sudden encounter.  Think of turning the corner and a pissed off Grizzly is 40 yards away and starting to charge you.  You've got a really big target that you need to dump rounds into really fast, so that type of sight makes sense for that type of rifle.

[Diddums 4,346]

Boom boom baby. Doc, do a vid of you shooting this:

 

 

[Docwagon 856]

Boom boom baby. Doc, do a vid of you shooting this:

 

 

 

You buy me one, I'll make the video.

[Docwagon 856]

Let's take some time to talk about kids and guns.  Recent events that have come through my office have made this a front runner in my mind.

 

Do NOT EVER NOT EVEN FOR A FUCKING SECOND LAY YOUR GUN DOWN WHERE A KID CAN REACH IT.  I don't care that you can see it.  I don't care you don't think you're kid can see it.  DO NOT FUCKING EVER DO THIS.

 

Why Doc?  Because your kid can reach for his chocolate milk and instead end up shooting himself through the face, which is fatal.  This will result in a dead child, a feeling of being a total asshole for the rest of your life, as well as possible criminal charges.

 

 

There is no god damned reason to ever ever fucking ever leave a loaded firearm unattended and unsecure if kids are in your house or the possibility exists of kids in your house.  Never fucking ever ever fucking ever.  If you're concerned enough about a home invasion to constantly have a firearm at hand, carry it like you do out of your house.  In a secure holster.  I carry a snub nose revolver any time I'm not under water but I don't lay it down and walk away from it, its in a pocket holster or ankle holster at all times.

 

 

 

Now, on a happier note, here's what's on my short list to acquire in 2014:

 

The new Match Champion Ruger GP100:

 

http://www.ruger.com/products/gp100/specSheets/1754.html

 

 

Ummm, sexy. 

[Plumbers Crack 4,068]

Nice Doc! Maybe Santa will bring it for you?

[Diddums 4,346]

I would've thought it's self explanatory to keep weapons out of sight for kids. Of course an old musket on the wall or something is different, but any live firearms would be far out of sight for my kids. 

 

 

//Doc what does "double action" mean?

[cyberninja2601 1,106]

I believe that is when cock and release the hammer in one action. 

 

You in cowboy movies when the pull on the hammer before firing, that single action.

Double action does not require that you do that.

[Docwagon 856]

Nice Doc! Maybe Santa will bring it for you?

 

Ruger just announced them, they aren't in stores yet.

 

I would've thought it's self explanatory to keep weapons out of sight for kids. Of course an old musket on the wall or something is different, but any live firearms would be far out of sight for my kids. 

 

 

//Doc what does "double action" mean?

 

You'd think, but lots of idiots haven't gotten the message.  Protecting themselves against make believe dangers and creating real ones for children in their house or simple carelessness have both been recent themes in children shot/shooting themselves.

 

Revolvers come in DAO, SAO, and DA (Double Action Only, Single Action Only, and Double Action).  Double action only means you can't cock the hammer manually, you have to cock it as part of the process of pulling the trigger (example: Ruger LCR).  Single action only means you have to cock the hammer before each pull of the trigger (example: Ruger Blackhawk).  Double action means you *can* manually cock it before the shot, but you don't have to (example; Ruger GP100).

[Docwagon 856]

So you're considering a shotgun for home defense?  That's generally considered a solid choice, but there are some myths and misunderstandings out there.  Let's walk you through the pro's and con's, and then we'll do some general tips.

 

Pro

 

1) Cost.  A quality shotgun is cheaper than a handgun of similar quality.  Why?  Because shotguns are dead simple to produce, they have few moving parts, the barrel isn't rifled (except slug guns, we'll get to that later), and they generally have looser tolerances because of that "have few moving parts" thing.  This is also why semi-auto shotguns tend to be much more expensive.  They need more moving parts, closer tolerances, etc.

 

2) Effect on target.  A 20g shotgun or larger is devastating.  It makes a large ragged hole.

 

3) Ease of aiming.  Any long gun is easier to aim than a handgun because of the concept of "sight radius".  Basically the longer barrel makes it easier to line up the sights, and a little deviation from having it centered creates less deviation between point of aim and point of impact.  Most shotguns only have a bead sight on the front.  Put your cheek where its supposed to be, put the bead on the target, pull trigger.

 

4) Ease of maintenance.  Any idiot can oil a shotgun, and they are very simple to maintain.

 

5) Ease of use.  Shotguns at close range are fairly easy to get proficient with.

 

Con

 

1) Sucks to practice with.  Remember how I said the shotgun is devastating?  Physics says that also means it sucks on the shooter's end.  Shotguns are high recoil.  Its not something you are going to want to put 50 rounds down range in one practice session with.  You can mitigate it a bit with recoil reducing stocks, reduced recoil loads, and a padded shirt...but it still sucks.

 

2) One handed operation sucks.  A pump shotgun is slow to run one handed, impossible if you don't practice and know how.  If your home invasion plan requires you to move around the house, this is a concern.  Ideally you will be holing up and ambushing the intruder, but if you've got kids you need to get to and the layout of your house dictates opening doors, this is a concern.

 

3) Ease of use.  Yeah, I know, its in the pro section as being easy to become proficient with.  It is.  The shotgun is easy to gain a base proficiency with, but difficult to master.  Reloading sucks.  Controlling recoil for faster followup shots sucks.

 

Ok, now that you have a base understanding, let's clear up some misunderstandings.

 

1) Shotguns are "point and shoot".  No.  The shot is only slightly larger than the end of the barrel at 5-10 yards.  It doesn't spread that quickly.

 

2) Birdshot is good for self defense.  No.  Fuck no.  Shot sucks for penetration.  Shot is round, which means shot has a terrible sectional density, which means it won't penetrate as deeply as a bullet of the same weight.  Buck shot relies on having a butt ton of power behind it.  Bird shot is simply too light, so even with a butt ton of power behind it, it loses inertia very quickly.  Birdshot will rapidly slow and lose penetration and it is unlikely to get to anything vital.  Bird shot is for birds and small game.  Buckshot is for people.

 

3) Shotguns are safer in the house because they won't penetrate walls.  No.  Drywall ain't stopping buck shot.  Know your background.

 

 

Which shotgun should I buy?

 

Stick with a pump if you are a beginner.  Semi-autos are pricey and can be very finicky on what type of ammo they run.  The last thing you need in a self defense shooting is a stuck shell that won't extract and your gun is down.

 

The market leaders are the Remington 870 and the Mossberg 500.  I like the Mossberg because the safety is up on to where its easy to see and can be ran with either hand.  I carry the 870 because that's what my department mandates.  Differences in quality are minor.

 

Smooth bore only.  SMOOTH BORE ONLY!!  No rifled barrels.  Rifled barrels are for slugs.  Running shot through a rifled barrel will result in a doughnut shaped impact, because imparting spin on the shot shell imparts centrifugal force which makes the shot spread out too much and in odd patterns.  There are slugs you can safely run through smooth barrels.  There are no shot shells you can run through rifled barrels.

 

Sights?  Personal preference.  Traditional bead, two beads, rifle sights, ghost rings, they all have their place and all have pro's and con's.  If anyone is real interested, I can walk through them.  For short range use, a bead set up is fine and will likely be the fastest to acquire.

 

You bought your shotgun, now what?

 

Take it to the range.  The first thing you need to do is pattern it with different kind of shells.  This will show you how much it spreads at various distances, and also what types of shells it likes.

 

Now run some drills.  As you work on your speed, learn the feel of your gun.  Pump actions can be "short stroked", where you didn't move the pump far enough forward to cycle it correctly.  Try to stress yourself and make sure you don't short stroke under pressure.

 

What type of ammo should I use?

 

Depending on how it patterns and how recoil sensitive you are, 00 buck or #1 buck are the preferred rounds.  #4 buck is the absolute smallest you should go.  Understand that #4 buck =/= #4 bird.  000 buck is available, and gives you bigger shot in exchange for less pellets per shell.  I haven't tried 000 myself, I think 00 is the sweet spot.

 

How should I store it?

 

SHOTGUNS ARE NOT DROP SAFE!  Modern handguns are designed so that if you drop them, they won't go off (when everything works like it should).  Shotguns have free floating firing pins and can discharge when dropped.  Keep this in mind when storing.  *I* store mine in a wall safe near my bed with the tube full, the action mostly closed, and the chamber empty.  If it tumbles out of the safe, its not going to go off.  The action isn't locked, so there's no button to push before I can work the pump to chamber the first round.  This can be done quietly by going slow.

 

What accessories do I need?

 

I highly recommend a light.  You need to identify your target and using a flashlight and a shotgun is impractical.  A forestock light makes this a much simpler proposition.  A side saddle for more ammunition is optional.

 

Questions?