CIA torture report

[Drifter 851]

So what you're saying is that the CIA should be allowed to do whatever they want under a Republican administration, because no one but the Democrats will question the actions of a Republican president. You know this to be true.

 

I believe he's simply saying that one party will always try to show the other party in the worst light no matter what the actual truth is. At least that's my take on it. Both parties do it to each other.

[Sennex 1,903]

I disagree with that sort of thinking, but also I haven't viewed them as separate parties in a long time, they are all the same

[JsinOwl 644]

I believe he's simply saying that one party will always try to show the other party in the worst light no matter what the actual truth is. At least that's my take on it. Both parties do it to each other.

Of course, but there's only two possible options here. Let the Republicans sweep it under the rug. Or let the Dems shine the light on it and then the Republicans and CIA can refute. At least it's out there now and hopefully the back and forth debate will get us closer to the truth.

[lepercolony 275]

And a panel that's all Democrat?  Why is anyone taking this seriously?  It's all politics.  I take their conclusions with a grain of salt, as should everyone else.  They "concluded" that the enhanced interrogations didn't yield any useful information.  Big surprise there right lol.  Well I, McNasty, "conclude" that they're full of shit.  Democrats have forgotten what it's like to have planes fly into our buildings, killing our friends and family who just wanted to show up to work, get paid, and go home.  

 

i was going to comment but i see Sennex basically beat me to it -- i really don't think the conclusion of the report can or should be considered a political interpretation because the panel was "Democrats."  the conclusion would seem easy to refute if it really was manufactured by Democrats, and obviously the CIA would be motivated to dispute their conclusion (if they were able to).  so i don't buy that.  i mean, are you saying McCain pussed out and is pretending 9/11 never happened because he buys the report's conclusion?

 

mmm yeah that just felt right.  like an old glove.

[McNasty 260]

I believe he's simply saying that one party will always try to show the other party in the worst light no matter what the actual truth is. At least that's my take on it. Both parties do it to each other.

 

Yeah this is what I was trying to say.  I don't believe any report that comes from a one-party committee.  Doesn't matter what the topic is.  Everything a politician does is centered around making themselves look better, because thats the type of people who end up in Washington.  Republicans and Democrats, they're all narcissists and only care about themselves.

 

I guarantee if the Republicans started their own committee and investigated this, they would come back with the opposite conclusion of the Democrats.  Right or wrong, thats what would happen.  Nobody should be surprised by that.

[lepercolony 275]

Of course, but there's only two possible options here. Let the Republicans sweep it under the rug. Or let the Dems shine the light on it and then the Republicans and CIA can refute. At least it's out there now and hopefully the back and forth debate will get us closer to the truth.

 

my god, man.  we both even used the word, "refute."  we have to share a little bit of DNA or something, there's like no other explanation at this point.

[lepercolony 275]

Yeah this is what I was trying to say.  I don't believe any report that comes from a one-party committee.  Doesn't matter what the topic is.  Everything a politician does is centered around making themselves look better, because thats the type of people who end up in Washington.  Republicans and Democrats, they're all narcissists and only care about themselves.

 

i'm on board with the fact that if the committee had been bipartisan then they would've had fewer folks who are willing to ignore the report outright.  that was dumb on their part.

 

I guarantee if the Republicans started their own committee and investigated this, they would come back with the opposite conclusion of the Democrats.  Right or wrong, thats what would happen.  Nobody should be surprised by that.

 

that ship hasn't sailed yet -- if anyone wants to take a crack at disproving the report, it's not like there's a statute of limitations on this.  my prediction though is that it won't happen.

[Docwagon 856]

In general I agree with you, but the people who were interrogated here were not your run of the mill hoodlum that doesn't want to be known as a snitch to all his gangster friends.  These guys think blowing up Americans will grant them access to 72 virgins to pound for all eternity in heaven.  I'd bet the best interrogator in the world wouldn't have convinced these guys to give up the information they did.  To them, giving up that information would be going against Allah, not Akbar their cave dwelling butt buddy.  

 

Except...that's exactly what happened.  As shown, most of the CIA's "breakthroughs" were bullshit, either lies from the detainee to make it stop or lies from the CIA to cover their ass.  The FBI got good intel and didn't lie about shit.

 

You think a guy who knows if he admits to his child porn collection he's spending the next few decades in a solitary cell to save his literal butt doesn't have huge incentives to not confess?  The guy who's facing the death penalty?  Dude, I put people away for DECADES and they confess.  You know why attorneys say don't talk to the police?  It's because we are trained to get the truth by convincing you it makes sense to tell it.  Torture is training to get someone to talk. 

Terrorists are not super humans or sub-humans.  They are not immune to psychological techniques.  They are, for the most part, extremely sheltered people unfamiliar with life outside of the one thing they have been taught.  Once captured, they are nothing but ignorant men who are WAY out of their comfort zone, in a completely alien environment, often poorly educated, disoriented, alone and vulnerable.  Interview rooms are bare because you have nothing to think about while you wait for your interviewer except your own actions that led you to be there.  It's a RELIEF when another human enters the room, even if he should be your enemy.  You want to be his friend.  Treating them like a monster reinforces your alienness, it gives them something to hate you for, it confirms their prejudices.  No one gets confessions that way, that's TV bullshit.  You get confessions from empathy (usually feigned), from offering socially acceptable ways to confess, from painting silence or denial as worse than admitting the truth, etc.

 

Detectives know this, or at least the good ones do.  POWs will attest to it as well.  Its way harder to lie to a 'friend' than it is a guy who's an asshole.  Its even harder if you can find a common enemy.  I've had people say "I know you're doing good cop/bad cop"....and it still works.  It's not because people are stupid, its because humans are wired a certain way, and you can take advantage of that if you know how.