Doc's firearms thread

[Docwagon 856]

Hey Doc, when we lived in Texas I had a lot of fun doing some recreational shooting with a Glock 19 to the point where I looked into taking a class for my conceal carry permit.

I'm an absolute novice outside of seasonal deer and bear hunting (I personally own a 270 and 308) so if my wife and I wanted our own, would you say a Glock 19 is a good starting point? It was such a nice change from being a rifle out. I'd also be looking for something easy maintenance wise.

 

You didn't say what you want to do with it, but the answer is "yes".  The Glock 19 is a jack of all trades gun.  It will do about anything you want it to, and while it's unlikely to be the absolute best in any one category it's going to be perfectly capable in any of them.  Look for a Gen 4.

[Docwagon 856]

Since Glocks are pretty common, I figured I'd give a quick list of pro's and con's.

 

Pro:

Relatively inexpensive.

Simple to operate

A ton of aftermarket support in terms of holsters, sights, etc.

Adjustable back straps on Gen 4 allows for different hand sizes

Gun comes out of the box ready to shoot (once loaded) and doesn't require a break in period to run right...with the exception of the new single stack.  Some folks have reported issues in the first 200 rounds or so.

Very long service life with minimal maintenance.  Change recoil spring assembly on schedule and you're very unlikely to ever wear it out.

 

Cons:

Blocky and can be tough to conceal for some folks.

Trigger must be pulled in order to take the slide off for maintenance, which can lead to accidental discharge.  You need to make sure, and then double check, that the gun is empty.

Finger groove models don't line up with everyone's fingers

"Glock knuckle" = the blister some people get when shooting a Glock a lot due to the trigger guard rubbing their finger.

"Glock leg" = shooting yourself in the leg when holstering.  This is very preventable by making sure your holster isn't obstructed and your finger is outside the trigger guard, along with using a quality holster but if you're using cheap shit for gear or are inattentive (or under a lot of stress) the Glock isn't very resistant to obstructions.

Not as inherently accurate as some other offerings.  Few shooters are good enough to notice the difference, but it's there.  If you aren't shooting a 5" group or smaller at 25y, it doesn't matter to you.

 

 

What's marketing:

That they are more reliable than other common offerings.  All the big boys run right for the most part, and all (including Glock) have an occasional poo gun.

Popularity is based largely on aggressive marketing to LE and trickle down from that.

 

What not to do if you plan to use it for a carry gun:

Fuck with the trigger.  It's light enough, it's smooth enough, fucking with it in terms of aftermarket connectors, polishing, etc. is a good way to fuck up a reliable gun and to make a trigger too light for defensive use (too much chance of accidental shooting)

 

What to do if you plan to use it for a carry gun:

Stippling is ok if you have trouble holding the gun, realize this dicks resale value.

Get sights you like. Stock sight are ok, but there are better out there.  Trijicon HD is a good example of sights that are both more durable and easier to use.

Get a GOOD holster.  Kydex or leather with a reinforced mouth, nothing that collapses.  Nylon sacks from Uncle Mikes are not good holsters.

Get a SIRT gun.  http://www.nextleveltraining.com/products/sirt-training-pistol This allows dry fire practice to be done safely and easily, without wear on your carry gun, and without the training scar of racking the slide after each trigger press.

[Rumelylady 188]

Doc, Chad and I saw this on facebook. We thought it was pretty interesting, but we're also really curious what you think of it? Does it seem like something that would actually be useful and make a difference? Or more just a really nice idea?

[Docwagon 856]

Doc, Chad and I saw this on facebook. We thought it was pretty interesting, but we're also really curious what you think of it? Does it seem like something that would actually be useful and make a difference? Or more just a really nice idea?

 

It seem like an expensive way to accomplish what can be done easier (and generally cheaper) with existing options.  Now, It's probably effective for what they say, keeping unauthorized access from someone who's not interested in stealing it.  There's a ton of existing safes that would hold any handgun, including a revolver, that I'd recommend over something like that.

 

The problem is it assumes you are just leaving your loaded gun out.  That's stupid.  Don't just leave your loaded gun out.  Either properly secure it in a safe or security cabinet or have it on your body.  Depending on how secure your home is (can your door be kicked in quickly or do you have a security door?  Do you have a window AC unit that can be pushed in quietly?  etc.) and your threat level the best course of action is to wear your gun if you believe speed of access could be critical.  I keep a small revolver in my pocket if I'm not going out, carry like I normally do when I am going out.  

 

Example of small safe:  https://www.amazon.com/SentrySafe-X041E-Cubic-Security-Black/dp/B0052U3TQK/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1467602496&sr=8-3&keywords=sentry+handgun+safe

 

I understand not everyone will carry around the home.  The next best thing is a small safe, preferably bolted to a heavy piece of furniture.  This will keep children away from the gun, plus protect it from theft and fire.  If speed of access is a requirement, go back to what I said about on body carry.  For night time, simply unlock the safe, or put the key in the lock.  Lock your bedroom door.  Re-secure it in the morning.

 

So, what works for me is:

Gun safe holds most everything.  It's got a digital lock, weighs about 600 lbs empty, and is fire rated.

In wall safe holds my home defense gun and my carry pistol if I'm not wearing it.

Shoulder holster on the headboard of the bed holds my carry pistol at night.

 

If you choose to use something like this for whatever reason, I'd practice working the code blindfolded until I literally could not get it wrong.

 

Where I could see this being useful is hotel room or the like where you're not going to have a safe.  I own a small clam shell safe with a security cable for that.  It will hold my P229 and my LCR (so medium sized carry gun and backup gun) or one of the guns plus my badge and wallet.  If I go to the pool or something where I leave my firearm behind the cable is secured to a desk or something and I know housekeeping can't get into it or just walk off with it.  It also works in cars by securing it to the seat frame.  Mine is cheaper/smaller, but this is the concept:  https://www.amazon.com/Portable-Pistol-Safe-lock-teether/dp/B00N167IMI/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1467602496&sr=8-8&keywords=sentry+handgun+safe

 

So, in summary,  I think a combination of on body carry and a small safe is superior, cheaper, and more effective than this gizmo...but the gizmo will probably work as advertised.

[Docwagon 856]

Oh, and the "children shot" statistic is EXTREMELY misleading.  The gun control groups tend to include things like teenager gang shootouts as "children shot".  They count teenager suicides as children shot, etc.  Unless the device locks out after so many attempts, it's foolish to think a teenager couldn't try combinations until they get it right.  It appears to have a 3 digit code, so not a lot of possibilities compared to a real safe. 

[JsinOwl 644]

You interested in Battlefield 1 Doc?

[Docwagon 856]

You interested in Battlefield 1 Doc?

If my son wants it for Christmas, but not enough to buy it for myself.

[Docwagon 856]

I've not been updating due to a lot of assorted day trips and OT shifts at work.  I have been doing a bit of dry fire and draw practice, but not nearly as organized as usual.

 

Today was my first live fire in 3 weeks.

 

I took my P229 9mm to an indoor range.  I've tried various bullet weights and it's consistently shot high, a 6 o'clock hold still results in about 1" high at 7 yards with 147 gr ammo.  

 

 

The left target is 147 gr HST ammo, point of aim is the center of the circle.  The right target is 147 gr Lawman ammo, point of aim is the bottom edge of the circle.  This has been very consistent with various weights of bullets and various manufacturers, so I'm satisfied it's the sights.  I left the gun at the range with an order for Trijicon HD night sights to be installed.

 

I moved on to my Model 19 and my wadcutter reloads.

 

 

 

7 yards was my max range today and I didn't spend a lot of ammo, but it was nice to knock the dust off a bit.

[Docwagon 856]

Sig vs Glock, for me:

 

I ran the same drill, the FAST, multiple times back to back with my duty Glock 22 and the P226.

 

The Sig is more comfortable to shoot. Both are in .40. I suppose weight and grip angle make the difference, but I don't feel anything in my wrists when I shoot the Sig. The Glock isn't painful, but would fatigue me quicker.

The Glock is easier to push low/left for me.

The Glock front sight is actually easier to track in the lack of direct sunlight that makes the Sig's shrouded fiber optic glow.

Most of my misses with the Sig were the first shot after the reload, getting back on the trigger to quick and pushing the shot a bit left (as facing the target).

Most of my misses with the Glock were shoving it low/left.

 

The Sig is much easier to reload.  The mag well is easier to hit consistently and the slide release is placed so that I don't have to move my grip at all.  The Glock's slide release is further forward and smaller, making it harder to consistently activate at speed.  The shape of the mag well makes it harder to glide the magazine in.

 

Time to first shot was remarkably similar.  I felt faster with the Sig, but the timer showed only .05 seconds difference.  Split times (times between each individual shot) were also quite similar.  The Glock was in the .40 second range, the Sig in the mid .30s.

Comparing clean run to clean run and -1 to -1 run, I was consistently over a second faster with the Sig, with nearly all the difference being in the reload time.  I believe a higher visibility front sight on the Sig would increase that advantage.  The Glock's mag well is the biggest limiter for this particular drill for me.

[Docwagon 856]

I got the Trijicon HDs on the P229 to rectify the point of impact being too high vs point of aim.  The shop got the ones that their distributor said was for the P229, but they were actually for the .40/.45.  The result is...not terrible.  The POI is right on top of the front sight blade.

 

 

The top target was with the orange dot covering the target.  Then #1 on the bottom was the same.  Then I moved to cutting the dot in half with the front sight post.  All shots at 7 yards.

 

I then moved to 12y and worked transitions clockwise.  The writing is "up", so tilt your head left to see the target like I saw it...

 

 

I'm going to our out door range next Friday and shoot at longer distances before making up my mind if I'm going to keep this set up or go to the 8 front 8 rear which should put the point of impact under the dot.  The shop owner was very apologetic, but it wasn't his fault.  He'd have taken them back, but I told him I'd just have him swap these on to my P229 .40 with dead night sights if I ended up not keeping them on this gun.

 

Speaking of which, 12y 5 shot rapid fire groups with the .40.  I got a little wild there at the end and started pushing low/left.  First 30 were all in the circle.

 

[Docwagon 856]

I have consolidated non-rimfire rifles to those I can reload for, and during some trading picked up a new Sig.  The Sig P227 Carry SAS, which is a few firsts for me.  It's my first "E2" Sig, it's my first "Carry" sig, and it's my first double stack .45 ever.  I don't fully understand Sig's idea with the "carry" length.  A slightly shorter slide but a full sized grip seems backward to me, with a full sized slide and shorter grip being easier to conceal...but ok.  Let's give it a try.

 

http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/p227-sas-gen-2.aspx

 

So, here's mine:

 

 

The E2 has a one piece grip, which is not the traditional Sig way of doing things.  I generally fear new things, but was reassured because it's apparently easy to swap on the old style two piece grips so if I didn't like them I could change them easily.  Verdict:  I liked them.  They give a good amount of grip without feeling uncomfortable.  I've not put it on a timer yet, but on the indoor range at a steady cadence it worked fine.

 

The sights are standard Siglite night sights, white dots with tritium inserts.  They are apparently set up for a 6 o'clock hold with the bullet impacting just above the top edge of the front sight.  I'll probably try the sharpie on the rear dots to make the front easier to acquire, but they are perfectly serviceable.

 

The first thing I did as a getting-to-know-you exercise was some vertical transitions.  One body, one head, one body, one head, decock and repeat. I threw a few as I sped up but overall was happy with the results and the pace:

 

7 yards:

 

 

Then, also at 7 yards, I did some accuracy work.  The bottom target was first, with a point of aim at the 1" square.  11 rounds clustered nicely just above the POA.  I then shot the top dots horizontally with the first circle DA, then the next two SA.  I shoved the gun with a few called fliers on #2 and #3 circles. The low/left on #4 was uncalled, but was certainly user error and not the gun.

 

 

What I found interesting is it fits in my P245 holsters.  This gives me a "midsize" option between the P245 and the P220...and with greater capacity than either single stack.  I'm going to break out the calipers and see how much thickness difference in the grip there actually is.

 

The long taper on the magazines looks like it'll be ideal for reloads as well, especially with the bit of mag funnel the E2 grips provide.

 

The trigger is what I consider classic Sig.  It's predictable and smooth.  I was a bit concerned prior to feeling it in person, because my only other SAS (A P229) had the grittiest trigger I've ever felt in a Sig when I first got it.  Not this one, no grit at all.

 

So, all in all, this is unlikely to become my daily carry gun (sticking with the full sized P226 for that), it's a perfectly serviceable option and may become my "out of town" carry gun when magazine size restrictions could be an issue.  I'm going to experiment a bit with it and the Milt Sparks Executive Companion holster to see how well it conceals vs the P245 and P220.