Doc's firearms thread

[Docwagon 856]

 

 

 

7 yards, slow fire, 2 magazines of 5 each.  First shot double action, four shots single action, repeat.  I had a few fliers, but all in all good groups.  The squares are 1x1".

 

Working the steels from the holster doing 3 shots on a torso at 5y.

 

P220 averages for 3 shots

 

1.03s   1.28s   1.52s

 

P245 averages:

 

1.15s   1.44s    1.70s

 

P229 averages:

 

0.97S  1.22s    1.43s  

 

I used a more competition oriented holster for the P245 and the P229 which likely gave me about a slight edge with them.  The front of the holster is lower so the gun clears faster and it sticks out from the body a little bit more so its easier to grasp, so the P220 was handicapped a bit.

[Docwagon 856]

I traded into a 9mm Sig P229.  Its my first personally owned 9mm ever.  I picked it up because the trade was swung in my favor value wise significantly and because science.  "They" routinely say one of the advantages of the 9mm is faster followup shots.  I want to see exactly what the difference is between the exact same gun in .40, .357, and 9mm.

 

I honestly don't know how long I'll hold on to the 9mm before I sell or trade it, but if I keep trading up I'll keep going with it.

[Docwagon 856]

05-01-2015

 

"Bill Drill"  - from the holster, 6 shots for time, trying to keep everything in the "A" box.

 

P220 with Trijicon HD sights, Bladetech Eclipse OWB holster

 

7y:  1.53-4.21, 6A     1.50-3.44, 5A/1B   1.63-3.51, 6A

 

15y:  1.65-5.26, 5A/1B    2.04-5.54, 4A/2B   1.97-4.94, 3A/2B/1C

 

Thoughts on the P220:  I'm having trouble with the sight picture on the HDs.  Even taking my time now I am having issues getting my sight picture right.  I know this sounds very simple, but when I focus on the front sight I have trouble seeing how much daylight is on the right side of the front post.  This is a new issue for me, not sure if its because I've been using factory sights on my other Sigs/Glocks so much or what. 

 

 

 

 

P229 (.40), Bladetech IDPA paddle holster

 

7y:  1.55-4.45, 6A  1.58-3.20, 4A/1B   1.44-3.16, 4A/2B

 

15y: 1.68-5.41, 6A   1.79-4.84, 6A   1.92-5.00, 6A

 

Other than my first string at the 15y where it took me 1.34 seconds to break the last shot (next to last shot broke at 4.07) and short stroking the trigger the first time (shot the P220 first with the short reset trigger), everything went smoothly.  My "B" hits were just barely outside of the "A" zone.  I'm still hunting the front sight a bit on this one.  The night sights are worn out and there is no color around the tritium insert.  Next month I'm going to have them swapped out for the white outline Trijicons like on my P229 SAS.  Tracking the front sight is much easier with that set up.

 

[Docwagon 856]

I'm partnering with a shooting coach to teach a 4 hour class on surviving random violence.  If anyone is in the Indianapolis area around June 27th and is interested, let me know and I'll send the details.  $75, limit 12 students, 4 hours, round count is 100-200.  Lecture, importance of the OODA loop, shooting fundamentals, and real life examples and scenarios based on them.

[Docwagon 856]

Very short review:

This is how shooting a Coonan Arms makes you feel:

Longer review:

Indy Trading Post has a Coonan Arms .357 magnum in their rental cabinet. It's the most fun you can have for $12 outside of Thailand.

Here is it:

It's bigger than a 1911, of course. The grip is long but relatively thin, and feels right. After shooting it, everything else just felt small in my hands. (Keep your minds out of the gutter.) The trigger is not a true 1911 trigger where it pushes straight back, it is more like a single action revolver hinged at the top. It is light, crisp, and predictable. I was immediately a fan after dry firing.

The magazine springs are TOUGH. The mags are designed with discs on the side to help push the follower down to fully load the mags. 5 rounds insert easily without using the disc. Rounds 6 and 7 required the use of the discs. Round 8 required using the disc, holding your mouth just right, and an appropriate grunt. Fully loaded with 8:

I loaded up 7 rounds (didn't know the appropriate grunt yet) and fired at a 1" bull's eye target at 7 yards.

You will note 6 very nice shots...and one keyhole. It was the last shot and it felt odd when it fired. Almost like a "catch" occurred, for lack of better terms. It never happened again and I'm going to blame the ammo on that one. Geco .357, for the record. So, after discovering the gun shoots about as well as anything in my hands, it was time to speed up a bit. After a total of 30 rounds, the target looked like this:

Other than the keyhole and one called flier, everything is grouped pretty nicely. Each square is 1"x1". I sped up until I started creeping left, then slowed back down. You can't shoot it quite as fast as a .45 1911, but the recoil was less than I expected and it settled back in pointing naturally and wasn't tough on the hands at all.

For comparison, I ran 20 rounds through my GP100 Match Champion at the same distance.

The first cylinder was low and left. The grip felt small in my hand and the recoil difference was immediately noticeable. In fact, I'd say I preferred the Coonan in terms of feel and recoil management. Single action trigger is a wash, both are very nice. Sights are also preference. The GP100's fiber optics vs the bright white dot of the Coonan. After re-acclimating to the GP100 I was back on target with it, and it's tough to say which is more accurate, but the Coonan is easier to be accurate with faster.

All said, I'm not sure I'd pay the money to BUY a Coonan, but I'd definitely RENT it again. It was a lot of fun, it shoots well, its not punishing (but it is loud)...but given the size I think it's mostly a range toy. Not that you couldn't carry it if you put your mind to it, I just think the bulk and length would make it less than ideal for me.

[JsinOwl 644]

I like the company's tag line: looking for your first gun? ..... This isn't it.

[Docwagon 856]

I like the company's tag line: looking for your first gun? ..... This isn't it.

 

It's sooo much fun to shoot.  I can't justify the expense of owning one, but I'll probably rent this one again at some point.  

[Docwagon 856]

 

I bought another Sig.  I might have a problem.  No, I can stop anytime I want.  I just don't want to.  I bought another Sig.

 

You know those once in a lifetime deals where you can't believe you're getting this good of a deal and something has to be wrong?  This was that deal.  Sig P226 SCT (Super Capacity Tactical), upgraded with short reset trigger and short reach trigger, along with mag funnel grips, the original flush grips, the 4 original 15 round magazines and (1) flush 12 round magazine plus a .357 Sig barrel in addition to the original .40 barrel in nearly new condition?  Yeah, I'll take that.  This is now a TacOps clone minus the ridiculous beavertail.  This is my new duty carry gun starting as soon as I make sure it runs right.  P226 on duty, P229 off duty.  The way the Sig gods meant it to be.

[JsinOwl 644]

So he took the cash instead of the 1911 then... If money were no object, would Sig still be your brand of choice?

[Docwagon 856]

So he took the cash instead of the 1911 then... If money were no object, would Sig still be your brand of choice?

 

I actually didn't give him the choice.  He messaged me this morning to ask if we were still on and that he was probably going to take the money.  I told him I'd rather he take the money and if he didn't want the temptation I'd leave the 1911 at home.  He said that'd be fine.

 

The funny part was when I handed him the money he looked like I'd kicked him in the dick.  He says "huh, I thought I'd be happier when I had the money."  His wife seemed to have gone through this before and tells me that he often sells a gun, misses it, and buys an exact copy of it again.  (losing money, from the sound of it...).

 

If money was no object, I'd have a lot more rifles.  I'd have a Nighthawk and a Wilson Combat and a Les Baer 1911.

 

I'd still carry Sigs, though, at least as long as I'm a cop.  Honestly, outside of custom guns and 1911s, there aren't many more expensive guns out there.  H&K is on par, CZ, S&W, Ruger, Springfield, Glock, etc. tend to be cheaper for a comparable gun.  I mean its possible to get a CZ that's more expensive than a Sig, but most CZs are cheaper than most Sigs.

 

1911s get pricey because a really good one has a lot of hand fitting.  You can mass produce 1911s to run right or to be dead nuts accurate, but you can't do both without some hand fitting and custom work.  Most people (myself included) can't really take advantage of the extra 1-2" group size at 25y, but its there for those who can.  Les Baer, for example, offers a 1.5" group at 50y guarantee, meaning that with match grade ammunition and shooting from a ransom rest the pistol will shoot a group that is no larger than 1.5" at 50y.  That's as good as some lower end rifles can do, and better than many mil-surp rifles are capable of.

[Docwagon 856]

First shots with P226:

 

 

Strings of 6, start in the holster.  (Bill drill)

Times:

3.94

3.30 (I think I shorted the mag one round and only fired 5)

4.01

 

 

Times from 12y line:

4.65 (2b)

4.49 (1b)

3.73 (3b)

4.21 

 

2nd string from 7yd:

3.47

3.01

3.19

 

No letters after a time means it was "clean" or all "A" zone hits.   Letters after indicate how many B or C zone hits.

[Docwagon 856]

I took John McPhee's Diagnostic Pistol class today.  He videos you as you draw, fire two rounds, reload, and fire two more.  I learned more in those 4 rounds than I've learned in years.  It's amazing to watch yourself on video, especially with the "Coach's Eye" (program that lets him draw on the screen like NFL commentators) and see what you are actually doing vs what you think you are doing.

 

He radically changed my grip, stating I'd basically been shooting one handed my whole life with my left hand just sort of hanging out.  It's slowed me down a bit on the draw as I break the old habits and get the new grip right, but its money once you are shooting.  Its so much stronger and more stable than my PD academy's "70/30" grip style.

[Docwagon 856]

Today was the first day I could shoot at our range after I took the training class.  I've shot at an indoor range and did some work yesterday at my rural property, but was mostly helping my son shoot and didn't do a lot of serious shooting myself.  So, today I spent 2 hours at the range and did some serious drills on the timer.

 

I'm a little slower out of the holster now.  That's a result of a few things, one is I'm concentrating more on my grip, so I'm thinking less about the draw stroke.  As the new grip becomes more intuitive, this will be less of an issue.  I've changed my draw stroke to get my left hand on the gun earlier, which results in a better grip but is slightly slower as it changes the path of the gun to be less efficient from a pure speed standpoint but lets me get on the sights faster.  I'm basically relearning to draw, so while I'm not quite starting from scratch I'm close.  As a result, my first shot times are about 0.1-0.2 seconds slower for "A" box hits then with my old draw.

 

Average first shot time:

 

P226:  1.69 seconds

P229:  1.71 seconds

P220:  1.76 seconds

 

Compare to draw and fire one shot, where I'm not thinking so much about the grip because followup shots aren't going to make recoil control an issue, I'm 0.27 seconds slower for the first shot on multistrings.  I'm sure as I get it more ingrained, this quarter second will go away.

 

So, here's the average on my 7 yard Bill drills today (draw from the holster, fire 6 rounds) first shot to last shot:

 

P226: 1.69-3.63  

P229:  1.71- 3.84

P220:  1.76-3.61

 

Now what the numbers hide on average is consistency.  I started out trying a different grip (using the index finger on my off hand to hook the trigger guard and try to control recoil).  The result was it was harder to keep correct lateral pressure on the heels of my palms.  My P229, for example, shooting that way had end times of 4.05, 4.40, and 4.30.  Shooting with the index finger under the trigger guard had end times of 3.88, 3.90, and 3.25 (getting into it) and 3.11 (too fast, strung way left, ended up putting a shot in the "C" zone, my only non A or B hit of the day.  The P226 was also about .30 seconds different.  I didn't try it with the P220.

 

When I do everything right, the results are much tighter than my groups before.  I had one flier, but this is the result:

 

 

The lateral pressure on the palms of the hands has definitely tightened up my left/right spread.  The trick is remembering to do it.  The grip is more complicated than the 70/30 method I was using.  This "crush" grip requires pulling with one hand, pushing with the other, and squeezing the palms on both.  That's why my first shot is now slower but my split times are faster.  I can follow the sight easier and am back on target.

 

Shooting my P220, every shot I strung out of the "A" zone was high.  The shots looked like a zipper.  I just wasn't waiting quite long enough to let the front sight settle back into the notch and shot before I had the gun completely out of recoil.  In an actual shooting, not a bad thing as first shot started high in the chest and they worked into the neck or head by #6.  Very little left/right movement.  Even though the times may not reflect the difference, the P220 is still the gun I'm most competent with.

 

I'm going to send my P226 out to a well known gunsmith for a trigger job.  The trigger is about 3 lbs heavier than my other Sigs, and it doesn't have the short reset trigger.  I think if I can get those issues taken care of then I'll be able to shoot it as well as the P220.

 

In the end, when I remember to do everything he told me to do, my groups are tighter, the fliers tend to to up instead of low/left, and my split times are better.  If I forget to do one part of the grip, it goes to shit and everything opens up.  I've got the push/pull down because its how I learned to shoot when Weaver was the stance of the day and I fell back into it easily.  The lateral pressure is still taking some time, as is the new draw stroke.  All in all, the effort is paying off big, though.

[Docwagon 856]

 

 

I want,

[JsinOwl 644]

[Docwagon 856]

 

I love C&H.  That one, spam mail, and the interrogation one are some of my favs.

[Docwagon 856]

Murphy dry humped me at the range today.

1) I pinched a chunk of my little finger off catching it between the mag well and floor plate on a reload.

2) The fiber optic fell out of the front sight of my P226

3) The speaker on my Shotmaxx timer went out and now sounds like a sad old man's fart.

#1 addressed with a bandage.

#2 addressed with Sig (which will make up the main point of this post)

#3 has yet to be addressed, but I did send an e-mail to Shotmaxx. I'll follow up there at a later date.

My P226 was built in 2008 per the S/N. Sig offered to send me a replacement front sight for free. This is a gun I bought used that's 7 years old, so I thought that was plenty fair.

This is the gun I wanted to have a trigger job and get the weight lowered a bit anyway and was thinking of sending to Bruce Gray. I asked if it would be possible just to roll the sight installation into a Sig Custom Shop package and was told absolutely, plus they had a special on several of their services. They are running $50 off Action Enhancement Package, SRT install, and not sure what else. $55 nets you round trip shipping via FedEx with a pre-printed label.

I don't know exactly how the workmanship between Sig Custom Shop and Bruce Gray shake out, but I they said their turn around time was 4 weeks and that was the main deciding factor to me, the price was a bonus but not the main factor.

I'll update when I get it back. I plan to ship it out Monday.

 

Even with the front sight's fiber optic rod missing, it still shoots fine. It'd suck at night, but in the day it just turns it into a plain black front sight.

 

[Docwagon 856]

Update on the Shotmaxx.  The company told me to check the charge, and if it was full they'd start the replacement procedure.  I plugged it in and it was at 1%.  Apparently the speaker requires enough battery to run.  Who knew?  Charged it up and it works as it's supposed to now, so user error on that one.  I just went to long without charging it.

[Docwagon 856]

 

Finished up the day with a bit of fundamentals work.  Draw from the holster slowly, concentrate on grip, hard front sight focus, fire one shot, decock, reholster, repeat.  The goal is to get one shot on each of the little 2" circles.  The times on the side are from Bill drills.

[Docwagon 856]

 

Head is 30 rounds from GP100 MC, body is 80 rounds from P220. All at 7 yards.

[Docwagon 856]

 

 

Enroute to me from Australia, hand made by a legend in the holster making industry.  I told him what I wanted and gave him free reign to make it as he thought best.  This is the result.  Giggity giggity giggity, I can't wait for it to get here.

[JsinOwl 644]

That's a sweet looking belt.

[Docwagon 856]

I gave a good home to two revolvers today.  A 1919 manufactured Colt Police Positive and a 1970 manufactured S&W model 19.

 

[Drifter 851]

Pretty cool old iron there. How'd you come across the old .32? You starting to collect more older firearms now or just come across it and had to have it?

[Docwagon 856]

Pretty cool old iron there. How'd you come across the old .32? You starting to collect more older firearms now or just come across it and had to have it?

 

It's a .38 Colt New Police (same as a .38 S&W, just different bullet profile), although they were made in .32 as well.  It basically fell in my lap, like a gift from the revolver fairy.  A friend's wife got it from an old woman with dementia who had no family and just wanted it gone.  It was locked shut so they didn't know it it was loaded or not.  They didn't want to pay a gunsmith to fix it, so they were just going to throw it away.  My friend asked if I wanted to look at it and I said sure, I'll try to make it safe.  He said if I could fix it I could have it, and I did.