Doc's firearms thread

[Jason 1,245]

He is amazing man. I had never heard of hi before, but after seeing him the other day I looked him up and found numerous vids of him and what he can do. The guy is just flat out incredible. For those that have not seen him, whatch this one for example... And keep in mind, that is not an auto pistol, thats a revolver..

That was fucking awesome.

[Docwagon 856]

As I stated awhile back, I put together a PSA rifle.  I finally got to the range and got it zero'd in today, and figured I'd do a review.

First off, I'd like to state I am not an AR-15 expert when it comes to the nuts and bolts.  I've never owned my own AR before.  I'm pretty familiar with running one, though.  I've been using government issued ARs off and on for almost 20 years.  As such, I won't be discussing twist rates, mechanical details, etc.  I'm sure folks who know a lot more than me have already said what needs to be said on those fronts.  I'll just be talking about if it worked or not.  (Spoiler:  It did.)

Before you get bored:



That's the rifle sans sling.  The sling is a Viking Tactics two point bungee with a quick release up front and the supplied side ring on the left side.




Here's the price break down:
Lower: $129
BCG: $89
Charging Handle: $25
Complete upper with rails: $309
Transfer fee: $15
Used Magpul rear flip up: $25
Used Eotech EXPS: $325
Vtac Bungee sling: $45
Quick release front stud: $0
Magpul Angled Foregrip: $35-ish (can't recall exact cost with sales tax, but within a buck or two)
Haley Strategic Inforce weapon light: $119

Total: $1116 as it sits, $791 with irons only, $672 with irons only and no weapon light.

I first zero'd it with the iron sights.  I'd never used flip up rears before, but they worked just fine.  All groups are 50y, prone, free hand, mag grounded.



First group is nice, buy way high:



Cranked the front post up to move the point of impact down, then one click of the rear to move the point of impact left (as viewed by shooter) a bit, and here's what I ended up with after 12 rounds.



That's about 1.5" at 50y and right in the chalk.  I'll take it.  I zero'd the Eotech off of the irons and it was really close.



I dialed it down and a fuzz, and all was right with the world.

I ended up running 80 rounds through it, and then my hour was up.  After zero, I did some three to five shot drills stationary and moving from 50-35 yards, head shots at 12y and 7y.  I find the rifle to be accurate and easy to run.  The angled foregrip is both natural and comfortable.  For an hour outing, it didn't make much difference.  For an 8 hour day, its going to be huge.  The lighter weight and angled foregrip vs A2 handguards is going to be much easier on my wrists.

The gun was 100% reliable.  80 rounds isn't much of a test, I know.  However with it being the first 80 rounds and no break in hiccups, that's a good sign.  Lube was standard CLP.  Ammunition was 55 grain American Eagle .223.  Magazine was a standard metal GI 30 round mag.

The fit and finish seems good to me.  Remember what I said, though, and the only thing I have to compare it to is GI weapons.  The upper and lower fit together with no play and do not wobble.  The finish is smooth with no visible flaws.  The rail does have a tiny bit of play.  It will rotate slightly if you wobble it, maybe 1/16" of an inch.  As something to hold a light and a grip, it does just what I want it to.  I would not want to use it to mount a flip up front sight or optic, though.  The Blackhawk! pistol grip is very comfortable.  The collapsible stock does what I need it to.  It provides a decent cheek weld, doesn't rattle, and locks in place without any fuss.  All in all, probably not the best option but definitely good enough.

The trigger is better than GI.  It works for me, as the groups show.  I have no doubt a RRA 2-stage or Gisselle or whatever is a better trigger, lighter and smoother, but I don't know how much difference it would make in how I shoot.  I found the trigger to be good enough.  It did not feel gritty, it broke predictably, and was a good weight for a patrol rifle.

The Vtac sling is awesome.  It deserves its own review, and when I have some more time with it, I'll try and do so.

In short, this seems to be a great working rifle.  It doesn't have brand name cache, its not particularly sexy, but at this point I believe it will do everything I will ask it to do.  Once its proven reliable over 400 rounds or so, I'll likely qualify with it and turn in my refurbed M-16.  My wrists will thank me, if nothing else.

[Docwagon 856]

50 yards standing to 35 yards.  Then head shots at 12y and 7y:

 

[Docwagon 856]

I got a new inside the waist band holster for my Sig, a Bladetech that matches the feel and angle of my outside the waistband Bladetech.  I'm sold.  These things are great holsters.  Its both faster and  more comfortable than my Crossbreed.  I know a lot of guys really love the Crossbreed and the "hybrid" style of holster they popularized, but for me its just too bulky to be comfortable.  Add in adjusting tension requires a hair dryer instead of a screw driver, and I'm firmly in the Bladetech camp.

[JsinOwl 644]

Like

I don't know shit about guns, so that's all I got.

[Docwagon 856]

Welp, had to use my gun for self protection for the first time today.  Luckily it was against a dog and not a human.  Still, there were some valuable lessons learned.

 

1) Dry fire helped a ton.  I drew instinctively as soon as I realized the danger, presented smoothly, had a good grip, and was ready to fire very quickly.

 

2) I do not remember finding my front sight.  I either point shot or did it instinctively.

 

3) Its tough to know if you hit your target or not.  At first I wasn't sure if I hit it or if the noise made it back away, but then it flopped over and I could see the blood flow.

 

4) Dogs that don't bark are scarier than dogs that do. I didn't know I had a problem until I had a bite mark.

 

5) Repetitive training matters A LOT.  I actually gave the dog verbal commands after shooting it, like I would a human.  I doubt the dog understood "stay down", but I kept it covered and gave it the command until I was sure it was no longer a threat.

 

I'll be fine.  The bite is small as it didn't get a chance to really clamp down on me.  The dog will not be fine, which sucks.  It's not the dog's fault.  He (or she) was probably raised by idiots who either intentionally made it mean or who threw neglect and lousy "training" techniques didn't teach it to act right if it got loose.

[JsinOwl 644]

Wow, I'm glad your training paid off but sorry it had to.

[Drifter 851]

Sucks man I know you probably feel bad for having to do that, but you gotta protect yourself so sounds like you had no other choice.

[Docwagon 856]

Looks like the transition ate my reply.

 

Yeah, it sucks because its not the dog's fault.  Well trained dogs that get enough attention and play time seldom turn out bad absent some disease.  It's the asshole human in the equation that usually ruins a dog.

[Docwagon 856]

So this is going around the interwebz, and although I frankly doubt its authenticity it makes some valid arguments:

 

http://loadoutroom.com/12077/fbi-going-9mm-comes-science/

 

It is true that the FBI is soliciting bids for 9mm handguns, so they are switching.  It's also true that 9mm and .40 are very similar in performance in most "all else being equal" shootings.  I believe the .40 works better in some circumstances, but I also have an extremely limited data set with premium defensive ammunition because thugs tend to use cheap ammo.  Most of my really good hollowpoints that end up in someone are from accidental shootings, often self inflicted on accident.

 

What's this mean for the self defense oriented citizen?  A 9mm with quality ammo will almost certainly do anything you need done, and will be cheaper to practice with to boot.

 

As for me, I'm unlikely to be switching any time soon.  I have to much invested in .45 and .357 in terms of ammunition stores, reloading supplies and dies, and the weapons themselves.

[Docwagon 856]

http://www.theindychannel.com/decodedc/laugh-or-cry-man-practicing-open-carry-robbed-at-gunpoint

 

Don't be that guy.  Open carry is fine for making a political point at a rally or the like.  Doing it routinely makes you a target.  If you wouldn't staple a hand full of $100 bills on your belt out in the open, why would you hang something of similar value there?  That's just asking to be robbed.  Carrying openly allows you to be ambushed and eliminates your ability to ambush.  You no longer get to decide when to act.  You no longer have the element of surprise.  Do you know that it takes about a second for someone to recognize a threat and then act upon that information?  That's why I worked so damned hard to get my concealed draw under a second.  I've got a 0.15 second advantage vs the average human even if they are staring right at me but don't know I'm a threat yet.  That's an eternity in a gun fight.  WTF would I give that up for open carry?

[Docwagon 856]

I'm approaching my 2 year anniversary with the Sig P220.  I wonder what I should get it to celebrate?

[BO7H B4RRELS 2,453]

As in a an accessory or a new gun?

 

New gun...  I've always wanted a couple of classics: M1 Garand and a Mosin Nagant.  

[Docwagon 856]

Accessory. Maybe new grips.

[Docwagon 856]

http://www.cdnnsports.com/email-specials/walther-ppx-m1-9mm.html#.VEJrNRnD_qA

Really good deal on a full size 9mm.

[Docwagon 856]

Today's post is on the importance of inspecting any used gun prior to purchase.  I recently sold a few guns that I'd purchased upgraded versions of and no longer needed.  As such my firearms budget is crying out for me to buy something.  I'm looking for another Sig and have been sniffing around my usual haunts.  I handled a P229 SAS, got the owner down to $650 and had the cash in my pocket but said I needed to break it down and inspect it before finalizing the deal.  The frame rails were in bad shape, indicating either a VERY high round count, or more likely improper lubrication and lack of maintenance.  Either way, I wouldn't take the gun for $300 at that point, as I'd need to send it to Sig and hope they warrantied it before the frame cracked.  The gun may have thousands of rounds left in it or it may just have a few hundred, but either way it wasn't for me.

 

A good resource on what to look for when evaluating a used Sig:

 

http://grayguns.com/guide-to-sig-sauer-pistol-inspection/

 

A good resource on evaluating a used revolver:

 

http://www.dayattherange.com/?p=664

 

Some general guidelines for any handgun:

 

http://www.chuckhawks.com/used_handgun.htm

[Docwagon 856]

The Sig P227 is a double stack .45 yet still fairly slim (for the category).  Our state police went to them recently and I got to shoot one.  I feels very much like the P220 but holds 2 more rounds in flush fit magazines.

 

http://www.defenderoutdoors.com/p-90949-sig-sauer-p227-45-sig-227r-bss.aspx

 

That's a very good price if anyone wants to get into one (or buy me one for Christmas....)

[Docwagon 856]

I'm using gunbroker for the first time.   Essentially this is an auction site for guns.  You bid online as per normal, then send the seller your payment, then they send the firearm to your FFL of choice to do the background check and then you pick it up from them.

 

My local shop charges $15 for the transfer, and figure $35 shipping for most pistols for 2 day service and on an most guns I'm interested in it's about the same as the sales tax.

 

Right now I'm watching 11, bidding on one, and am winning with about 3 hours left to go.  **fingers crossed**

[Docwagon 856]

Woot.  Won my first auction.  Stay tuned for what I won (probably a week or so by the time they get the payment and send it to me).

[Docwagon 856]

Payment has been received.  It should ship tomorrow with any luck.

[Docwagon 856]

I picked up my new gun today.  To celebrate my Sig P220's anniversary, I got it a little brother.

 

 

This is a Sig P245.  It is out of production, replaced by the nearly identical Sig P220 Compact.  The P245 has a few differences, including a carbon slide instead of milled stainless steel slide, slightly different slide serrations, and is made in Germany.  They are almost entirely the same otherwise, parts interchange, dimensions are the same, etc.

 

The really cool thing is it will accept P220 magazines, although they stick out the bottom (of course).  The standard P245 magazine holds 6 rounds whereas the standard P220 magazine holds 8.  This particular firearm came with two flush fit magazines and two P220 magazines with a built in spacer so the magazine extends the grip.

 

I'm hoping to take it to the range tomorrow and test fire it.  I am going to run some Hornady hollowpoints as well as my own reloads and make sure it runs right.  I'll post up some more pictures and range results.

[Drifter 851]

Looks good

[Docwagon 856]

Here we go:

 

It came with two flush fit magazines and two extended magazines (P220 magazines with a spacer floor plate).  It is a used gun, of course, but appears to be a very low round count gun.  The exterior of the barrel is barely worn, and the frame rails look almost same as new.
 


Based on the serial number, I believe it was manufactured in 1999, and is a German made gun with factory Sig night sights.




 
I carry a P220 daily, and the first thing I noticed is that the gun fits my hand exactly like the P220.  The grip is the perfect length for me to get all of my fingers on it but not have any grip hanging out the bottom.  It feels just as good in my hand as the P220 and does not feel “small”.  Of course, it is not particularly small, despite being what Sig considers a compact.  The overall length is ½” shorter (7.1” vs 7.6”) and the height is 1” shorter (top of rear sight to bottom of magazine: 4.75”  vs 5.75”)  Width is the same, and the pistols will share holsters (with the obvious that a P245 specific holster will be ½” to short if a closed bottom design or if you don’t want the P220 to stick out).
 
Shooting it, it feels very much like shooting the P220.  I was worried the recoil would be noticeably more intense, but it wasn’t.  The heft of the P245 and the good grip-to-hand feel made it feel so close to the full sized P220 that I can’t say for sure how much, if any, more recoil there is.  I was on an indoor range and did not engage in rapid fire or timed follow-ups, to it’s a bit tough to tell at this point.  First instinct is any difference is minimal, though.
 
So, here’s my first group.  6 shots of my own reloads (230 gr plated bullet over 4.4 grains of Winchester Super Target).


 
I strung them a bit vertically, and realized I was holding too tight with my support hand.  I was concerned it would have more recoil than it did and had squeezed to hard in anticipation.  Once I figured that out, it tightened up a bit.  My third string was near perfect, as I’ll show in a later picture.

This is 6 shots of Hornady Critical Defense 185 gr.  Hornady markets this as being for short barrel guns.  The P245 is a 3.9” barrel, so its sort of a middle length.  I’ll be interested to chrono it when I shoot outdoors next time.  Recoil was very minimal, and it was an extremely pleasant cartridge to shoot.  The one flier is all my fault, and otherwise the group touches.  I believe this cartridge would allow very quick followup shots.  This is likely what I will carry in the P245.


 
Next up was Hornady Critical Duty 220gr +P.  Hornady markets this as being for 5” barrels.  I sucked with it.  I was consistently low, often left, and the group was dinner plate sized.  I thought perhaps the P245 just didn’t like it, so I tried a magazine through my P220 (4.4” barrel) and the results were basically the same.  I thought perhaps I was just shooting terribly for some reason, so I then ran a magazine of my reloads through the P220 and shot normally, about a 2.5” group.  I don’t know if the Sigs just don’t like this cartridge (both are rated ok for +P) or if I just wasn’t doing something right.  The recoil was very heavy, but I didn’t feel like I was shoving the gun and I can normally call my shots if I push it and hit low.  Regardless, I ran all 20 rounds through the two guns and even taking my time, firing single action, and concentrating on the fundamentals I could not hold groups approaching those with the reloads or with PDX-1s or Critical Defense.
I then did some basic head shot/torso shot….torso shot/head shot with a bit of speed and with both eyes open.  I had to relax my strong hand again, as I was starting to string left, but got it figured out and back on track.  Note the group labeled #3.  That was my 3^rd string ever with the gun, and at that point I had the sights and the grip figured out.  I still prefer my Trijicon HDs, especially for trying to shoot with both eyes open, but the Sig lights did just fine.


 
I had one failure to fire.  One of my reloads did not go off with the first hammer fall.  Pulling the trigger again touched it off with no problem.  This batch was reloaded on my old press when I was having trouble seating large pistol primers, and the primer was likely set to deep, so I’m blaming the cartridge and not the gun on this one.  There were no failures to feed or eject.  All factory ammo fired as expected.
The trigger is good, but not quite as smooth as my P220.  It does stack just before tripping in double action and feels heavier than my P220.  Firing them back to back makes it much more apparent.  The SRT trigger in the P220 is also much crisper and quicker to reset.  The P245 has a bit of mush in the trigger as it resets.  Once it clicks there’s some very light mushy feeling take up before it “catches” and starts to feel clean, then breaks the hammer cleanly.  The SRT clicks and is immediately “catching” and trips the hammer very cleanly.  The stock P245 trigger is certainly good, but its just not excellent.  Luckily, a SRT trigger is an easy upgrade.
 
The one concern I did notice is the magazines do not drop free when the slide is locked back.  They drop partially free and then hang.  I know certain guns are designed to do this so you can retain your magazines easier, but I don’t know if the P245 is designed to drop free or not.  None of the 4 mags drop free with the slide locked back, but all 4 eject with authority with the slide closed.  I would prefer my mags drop free on an empty gun reload.
 
In the future, I’ll likely send this gun to the Sig custom shop for an SRT and an Equinox style front sight (to help facilitate both eyes open shooting) and to have the trigger polished up a bit.  I don’t intend for this to replace my P220 as a EDC, but I’m sure it will get some quality holster time on longer road trips or vacations when the shorter height will be more comfortable and easier to conceal.

[Docwagon 856]

Want a Scorpion EVO?

 

http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-scorpion-evo-3-s1-pistol/

 

That'd be pretty cool to put a stock on if you were willing to do the paperwork and the $200 tax stamp for a short barreled rifle.

[Drifter 851]

Want a Scorpion EVO?

 

http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-scorpion-evo-3-s1-pistol/

 

That'd be pretty cool to put a stock on if you were willing to do the paperwork and the $200 tax stamp for a short barreled rifle.

 

Now that's pretty dang cool!